What is the magic of Outer Banks, this summer’s #1 netflix hit? We had the pleasure of speaking with Valerie Weiss, who directed the pivotal episodes, 7 & 8 on season I. Valerie is an award winning film director and scientist. Valerie will discuss her transition from science into filmmaking and how she tackled mental illness in her early film, a Light Beneath Their Feet. Valerie will also touch on how to turn self-doubt into confidence. Many of us have experienced the imposter syndrome. Valerie will explain why it’s not necessarily negative and how you can use it to propel yourself forward.
You will learn about...
To watch Outer Banks click HERE
To watch A Light Beneath Their Feet click HERE
To learn more about Valerie Weiss:
For show notes click HERE
Connect with Madeline & Becca HERE
Follow us HERE
If you enjoyed this episode it would mean the world to us if you could leave a review for The Madeline and Becca Podcast on iTunes HERE
If you are interested in being a guest on our show or have topics you would like us to highlight, please email us: info@madelineandbecca.com
On The Madeline & Becca Podcast, we chat with leading women from a variety of industries about their career journeys and how they developed professional self-confidence.
Produced by Madeline and Becca
Episode #15: The Magic of Outer Banks with Valerie Weiss
Valerie [00:00:00] When I look back at Outer Banks, it's really about chasing something you think you want, but getting what you need, right? It almost doesn't matter whether these kids get the gold, they all need something from this journey because they are all stuck. Where they are is not good enough for them to become adults. It's not the end of the journey for them, it's the beginning.
Madeline & Becca [00:00:29] Welcome to The Madeline and Becca podcast. The mission of our podcast is simple, to inspire professional self-confidence in women everywhere. I'm Madeline. And I'm Becca. On our podcast, you will hear stories from real world influencers, women who have experienced tremendous success in their careers by building self-confidence.
Becca [00:00:51] What is the magic of Outer Banks? This summer's #1 Netflix hit? We had the pleasure of speaking with Valerie Weiss, who directed the pivotal episodes, seven and eight on season I. Who out there was captivated by the epic belltower scene with John D. and Sarah Cameron? Or JJ's hot tub scene after a turbulent fight with his father? Valerie reveals how she worked with the actors to bring the raw emotions and transparency to life and how we as viewers can all relate to the meaning behind the storyline. Valerie is an award-winning film director and scientist. She graduated from Princeton University, where she majored in Molecular Biology and earned a certificate in theater and dance. She earned her Ph.D. from Harvard in BioChem and Molecular Pharmacology, as well as a master's degree in Medical Science from Harvard Medical School. Valerie will discuss her transition from science into filmmaking and how she tackled mental illness in her early film, A Light Beneath Their Feet. Valerie will also touch on how to turn self-doubt into confidence. Many of us have experienced the imposter syndrome. Valerie will explain why it's not necessarily negative and how you can use it to propel yourself forward. Here's Madeline.
Madeline [00:02:39] So, I want to start today by discussing your background, because I read that you received both your undergraduate and your Ph.D. in the sciences. So, can you tell us about your career before you got involved with the filmmaking industry?
Valerie [00:02:53] Sure. I think I was probably always destined to be here because this is where I feel most at home, but also utilized. I think the same, the part of me that wanted to be a scientist also wanted to be an artist and really just wanted to think about deeper questions that people weren't talking about you know, on the surface, things that we all think about but don't say or things headed down the pike for our future. And so, I actually started by getting interested in acting when I was about nine years old and taking acting classes and reading lots of plays. And when I got to Princeton, I got a chance to direct my first play. And I was majoring in science, which I fell in love with in tenth grade. I was majoring in molecular biology. And the reason I fell in love with science was probably the same reason I loved theater so much, which was this ability to go deeper and see the microscopic or the motivation behind who we are and why we do what we do. And so, when I got to college, I was, "oh, I'll just do both things that I love. I'll major in molecular biology and minor in theater and dance and decide later where I fit." And so, my sophomore year, I got a chance to direct my first play and it was like an epiphany because it was creative and intellectual. It felt like a much bigger fit than acting ever did for me. And it just drew on everything I felt like I'd been building in my toolkit and my outlook my entire life. And so that's when I knew I wanted to be a director. But I had no idea, how do you do that? You know, for so many reasons and things that you're tackling in your podcast, there were so few female role models that were film and television directors. And the ones I knew of seemed to have grown up in the business-like Penny Marshall or so, I didn't know how this, you know, girl from Philadelphia who had no entertainment connections was going to be able to break in. So, I decided to stay on my course of science and knowing that if I did a Ph.D. in biophysics or biochemistry, my research covered both topics, it would give me skills that would be useful in either way, in either profession. And you know on the side, I decided to learn as much about film directing as I could, and I started a film program at Harvard for graduate students, and I just kind of told myself at the end of my graduate work I would decide for sure which way I wanted to go. And if I chose science, great, like I could get a job very easily and not have to worry about how to support myself, and but if I still had that needling feeling that I was meant to do something else, I would know that I had to listen to it.
Madeline [00:05:43] So, how then did you make the transition from science and break into the film industry?
Valerie [00:05:48] So, you know, once I directed that play in college, I just never stopped directing. I directed five plays in college, plays by Peter Shaffer and Christopher Durang and Edward Albee. And just, you know, as much as I could, I directed theater, which was a lot easier to wrap my brain around, how you, you know, resource wise, how do you do that? And then when I got to Harvard, it was an interesting time because it was the beginning of digital technology. Final cut pro had just come out and mini DV cameras, digital camera. So, it was really the beginning of the DIY movement. And so, I went to Harvard and said, I know you want me to be the drama fellow and I will continue to make sure we have great plays every year, but I really want to start a film program. And, if you just give me a little bit of seed money to get a computer and a mini DV camera, I'll do everything else. And they agreed. And I taught myself how to use all the software, how to use the cameras. And I just, any film professional that was coming through Boston or working in Boston, I would invite them to speak at this program. And that was my film school. And what was really fun about the journey that reflected my values was our students weren't film students. They were Ph.D.’s like me, in various subjects from romance languages to environmental sciences to politics. And so, they were learning how to express their specific world views through filmmaking, which I think is one of the most important things we can do with this tool, which is share our perspectives and have people understand something they didn't know before. And so, that was really fun to teach them and learn along with them. And I had a film festival where we all made shorts. And so, by the time I finished my Ph.D., I directed my first little feature. It was called Dance by Design. And it's about an architect, an architecture student who really wanted to be a dancer and how she defies her father and goes off to New York to be a dancer. And so, it was really like, you know, the manifestation of what we were all feeling. We all had these dreams of being artists. So, it was therapeutic and instructional. And two weeks after we wrapped production, I defended my thesis, which was really interesting, because my mind was very much in this film world by this point, I kind of had one foot there and another foot still in science. And I passed. And, you know, as soon as they said, congratulations, you've got your Ph.D. The elation I felt was I think I was proud, of course, but belief that now I could go on and close that chapter and bring what I had learned from that period of my life into the next chapter, which was film directing.
Madeline [00:08:28] It's really interesting to hear you say that, because I think a lot of people tend to think of, we have two sides of the brain, right? There's sort of an analytical side and the other side being creative. And obviously in your work, you are using both effectively. Can you tell us how is your science background been advantageous to your career and using that scientific lens and what you do in filmmaking?
Valerie [00:08:49] Yeah, thank you. I agree. I mean, for me, they've always been really intertwined. I've never felt the separation. I mean, I wasn't like a science kid. Science math kid. I always did well in those subjects. But until I had a great teacher in 10th grade, I never even thought about science as a path for me. So, for me I think it's really helpful, I mean, art is so free flowing, and you can make a million different decisions. And the product, let’s say, you know, you start with a screenplay and a finished film in different people's hands can be infinitely different. Right? You can do so many different things with the same material. And yet, I think it really helps me as a scientist to look at the material and analyze it and go really deep into the text and ask what it wants to be and find inconsistencies and discover whether those inconsistencies are helpful. You know, sign road signs that tell you what it wants to be or whether they're aberrations that need to be addressed and fixed. And so, I think I'm really talented at that with this source material. And because I can get really clear about the source material, I think I then can build on that in a way that I think my finished product feels really rich and resonant for an audience. And so, for me, there's always this interplay. And I, and I struggle when there's problems in a script until I get them answered, at least not necessarily fixed, but questions answered by the writer to find out, well, did you really mean this? Or did you mean something else? And oftentimes, you know, they appreciate the sounding board. They did mean something else or they'll clarify. But until I get those answers, it's very hard for me to build creatively in the process because it's just like you don't want to do a bad experiment. If there's a flawed hypothesis, your results are gonna, when you go to analyze your data, it's going to be a mess. And so, I think there's a real correlation with art in that way. So, I think the way I think really helps me in my process.
Madeline [00:11:01] So, before we get into talking about Outer Banks, I want to touch on one of your earlier films, which is A Light Beneath Their Feet. So, for our audience, who hasn't watched the film yet. Can you just give us a brief, a brief synopsis of the plot?
Valerie [00:11:14] Sure. Thank you. That's a film that feels very personal to me. It's, it's a mother-daughter story, which is what really attracted me to it. It happens to be about mental illness, about bipolar disorder. But for me, that's not really, again, when I talk about going deep with what's the message of the movie, it's not even really about that. But the plot is that this young woman, Beth, 17, she's a senior and her mom struggles with bipolar disorder played by Taryn Manning. And she's a since her mom is a single mom. So, it's just the two of them. It's always been just the two of them. And Beth is about to go off to college. It's set in Chicago, in Evanston, and her mom expects her to go to Northwestern, which is just around the corner. And just that freaks her mom out. Just the fact that she's going to be two blocks away in a dorm her mother can't handle, whereas Beth really dreams of going to UCLA for the sole reason that it's sunny and predictable and the same all the time, unlike this this tumultuous relationship with her mom. And why I wanted to tell this story was at the core of this movie, there's so much love, like they really love each other, but it's fraught. You know, it's not a conducive relationship for Beth to come of age and find herself. She'll never really be able to do that if she stays. And so, part of the analysis I did at the script stage was discovering or determining that this really is a movie about is it okay to leave someone you love? And that can be, you know, boyfriend, girlfriend, girlfriend, girlfriend relationship. It can be a family relationship. It can be any relationship that feels like it's expired in terms of what it's doing for you personally, but you have so much care and love for your partner that you struggle with, you know, honoring what you want versus what they want. And so that's, that's the heart of the movie. And, you know, all the distance decisions I made were always based on that idea. And if they didn't resonate with that truth, then that's an idea that I would throw out because you feel it. As you watch a movie and at the end of the movie, you're left with that moral or the ethos of the movie. And so, yeah, it was exciting to make that film.
Madeline [00:13:38] And mental illness is still, I think, such a taboo subject and rarely focused on in screen. What was your reason for tackling it in this film?
Valerie [00:13:49] Yeah. Thanks for asking. I mean, I don't remember what year we made this, but there was a lot less. There was lot more stigma and a lot less conversation around reducing the stigma of mental illness when we made this and so that was a large part of why I did it and also my background as a scientist and I also have master's in medical sciences, so I, you know, love to think about things from a medical filter. And, you know, when you really do a deep dive into mental illness, it's no different than having diabetes or cancer. It's, it's something physical. It's something chemical and it affects you. But we don't judge people for having diabetes or cancer. And so, I also learned mental illness affects one in four people, one in four adults, which is huge. And then when you factor in all the people it affects in their lives, their families and their friends, there's so, there's a large portion of our population who are affected by mental illness and dealing with it. And so, I really wanted to make a movie that dealt with it sensitively and effectively and just kind of like looked at, I don't know, I just looked at it for what it is like we'd look at anything else. And so, I really did a lot of research. I went to conferences on mental health, like the Brain Behavior Research Foundation. I went to a huge conference that they had. I read a book by Cinda and Linea Johnson. It's an excellent book. Sorry, the name, it's a memoir where mother/daughter, the daughter has bipolar disorder and she and the mother alternate chapters. And it's real time. It's her diary and her teenage and college years going through it. I read that and we reached out to the authors and actually they're incredible. They read the screenplay and gave us their thoughts and they watched the finished movie. And I think the best praise I maybe I've ever gotten was the daughter watched it and she said, oh, my God, I never knew how I affected others. I always knew what I felt and how I felt betrayed by friends who left me or didn't stand by me. I never knew what effect I had on everybody else. And I was like, wow, if you see this movie as a mirror, that's, you know, rehabilitative for you and for others. And I, we were the closing night film at the Rendezvous with Magnus Film Festival in Toronto. And the audience, same reaction. They're like I see myself, I see my mother. I'm both characters. And I think it's just that's, that's the beauty of art, is that we can let people, we can allow people and escape to go deeper inside themselves and, and puzzle over what's concerning them and what changes they might want to make or not make. And so, I'm, I'm really thrilled with how that, that movie has been received by people.
Madeline [00:16:46] And do you think in terms of the film industry in Hollywood, do you think they should do more to tackle mental illness? I'm just thinking, especially in relationship, that everything that's been going on in the pandemic and the statistic that you mentioned, about one in four people having mental illness.
Valerie [00:17:03] Yeah, I mean, I think, you know, there's, there's movies every, every year that tackle some aspect of mental illness and they're usually really well done. And, you know, there's, there's a lot of, there's a lot of programing now about, you know, being on the spectrum like a-typical and dealing with all aspects and euphoria, you know, deals with teenage issues and self-medicating with drugs. I think it's great. I think what we maybe need to start doing is having shows and movies that aren't necessarily about mental illness, but have characters who are struggling with it within, just like you'd have, you know, any leading or supporting character who's an athlete or who's an artist or a mother, brother, sister. But, just making, incorporating it as part of a world, because I think you will reach more people. And I think that helps normalize it because it's not something in a vacuum. Right? Most people who, not most, and I don't want to misstate statistics, but many people who struggle with it are very functional and lead very normal lives. And most of their peer group and professional group probably don't even know what they're struggling with. And so, seeing how it sort of integrates, how they integrate it and deal with it in their lives, I think would probably be the next step that would be really helpful and useful to them and to society.
Madeline [00:18:41] That's a really good point. It's not experienced in a vacuum in some closed door. It's experienced the relationships of all types.
Valerie [00:18:48] Exactly. Exactly. And you'd probably, you'd get a wider audience. Right? There's a, a certain you know, subset of audience that will want to see my film. And hopefully, you know, it's I think it's a very universal film because it's a mother daughter story and a teenage love story. But, you know, movies that are solely about mental illness, like that amazing Jessica Lange movie, Frances, you know, I mean, that was a huge hit. But, you know, you're only going to go back and see that probably if you want to see a movie about that topic or Cuckoo's Nest or you know, but if you don't want to see a movie about that, then you might avoid it. Whereas if it's integrated more organically in other storylines, you can't avoid it.
Madeline [00:19:44] Let's talk about Outer Banks, because for our audience who hasn't watched it, this is the summer's #1 Netflix hit. It's an absolute must see. So, go watch it today for all of our listeners. So, first, for those people who haven't watched it yet, can you just give a quick overview of the plot and tell us about how you got involved in directing two of the pivotal episodes of the season?
Valerie [00:20:10] Thank you. I am just as big a fan as the biggest fan out there, I'm such a teenager about this show. I really appreciate, I get a lot of Instagram comments from all the fans, and I am right with them. I'm such a fair girl about it. I love it. So, it's, it's a big hit, as you said, which is really exciting. And, you know, people ask, you know, last summer we were doing it. Nobody knew anything about the show. We were in South Carolina, Charleston shooting it. And, you know, people I was like, this is what I'm working on, people were like, OK. But, you know, people ask, did you know you had something special? And I truly did. I mean, this cast and, and the world is just so incredible. So, I'll tell you what it's about. So, it's set in North Carolina's Outer Banks, which is kind of an island community. And there's only two kinds of people that live there, according to the Lord. There's the Pogues, which are the poor kids and the rich kids, which are the Kooks. And you either have two houses or two jobs. And that's, that's how they sort of differentiate between these groups. And we follow John B who's a Pogue. And he's got Pogue friends. Rudy, not Rudy, sorry, Rudy's the actor. JJ and Pope and Kiara, who's half Kook, actually. She's a rich kid who prefers the Pogues. And so, John B's dad's been missing for nine months and doesn't know what happened to him. But we do, he does know his dad was always chasing 400 hundred million dollars in gold treasure from this mythical royal merchant ship that sank you know hundreds of years ago. And there's a lot of, there's a lot of these true stories out there on the coast. And so, anyway, there's a hurricane which upends everything. And these kids find this sunken boat. And in the boat, they find a clue that maybe John B's dad is still alive, or at least maybe he found the treasure. So, this starts this whole treasure hunt for these kids that are really left to their own devices because their parents are either working or, you know, uninterested. And so, they have all this leeway to be out on boats and having these amazing adventures throughout the season. And it's really, really fun and exciting.
Madeline [00:22:31] So, tell us about how you got involved in the series.
Valerie [00:22:36] Yeah, so Jonas Pate created the show along with his brother Josh and Shannon Burke, a longtime friend of theirs. And Jonas was looking for guest directors. And he got my name from a producer that I worked with on the resident, Dave Hartley. And reached out to my team and they called me and, you know, I had, I read it and loved it. I was like, this is exactly, you know, because it's, it's, it's a lot like A Light Beneath Their Feet. Right? It's, it's kids dealing with huge adult issues, but they're not mature enough to know that they can't handle them alone. And so, they, they take it on. And so, that's kind of my favorite thing to do with YA is just, you know, kids not understanding that they're not invincible yet. And so, yeah, so then I had a call with Jonas, who was in North Carolina at the time, and it turns out Jonas went to Princeton also. He's a few years ahead of me. And I'd always heard about Pate brothers, like when I, you know when I wanted to be a director. Everyone's like, oh you should find the Pates, track the Pates down. They're doing really well. But I never got to meet them. And so, Jonas and I had a really great call and talked about it. And on the call, he mentioned, you know, because like I said, the script is just one document. It's a blueprint, but it's not everything. And Jonas was like, you know, in terms of style, I want this to feel like Friday Night Lights. And as soon as he said that, I was in because again, you've seen A Light Beneath their Feet, it's very, almost feels like a documentary. It's just needs to for me, needs to feel so real so that the stakes don't feel soapy or unearned or fake. I just really want you to worry about these kids in this world like you do with Friday Night Lights. And so, yeah so as soon as I talked to Jonas, I was in and then, you know, they had their process. And he called me back a few weeks later and I got these incredible episodes, seven and eight.
Madeline [00:24:35] They were the pivotal episodes and incredibly memorable on the season.
Valerie [00:24:40] Oh, thank you.
Madeline [00:24:40] So, just like you, Becca and I are fan girls and we want to discuss two of our favorite scenes that really resonated with us. So, first, let's talk about the church tower scene, which was just so romantic between John B and Sarah Cameron set in the abandoned church. And everything about the scene has captivated the huge fan base, you know, from the chemistry to the ambiance. It was just both magical and also, like you said, with the series, very relatable. So, tell us, what was your vision for this scene?
Valerie [00:25:09] Oh, thank you so much. I love that scene. And I loved the process of doing that scene, too. You know, we talk a lot about the female gaze and how different things are to female directors’ hands than they might be in a male directors. And who's to say. Right? You know, Jonas directed like really beautiful episodes that are very emotional, that I really respond to as a woman. And so, you know would those have been different in a woman's hands? Would this scene have been different in Jonas's hands? I don't know. But I certainly embraced that I got to put my teenage perspective and what I think is romantic into this world. And so, you know, finding that location was just incredible. It's just the perfect location. And, you know, it comes back in later episodes, so it was really important to be, to hit certain marks for that. But, you know, as soon as we walked in and I saw the broken stained glass and the ladder, I was just like, OK, this is what needs to happen is that, you know, I want some candles that he surreptitiously grabs so he can light because we knew that in the bell tower when he opened those windows, we wanted to see Sunset, but I wanted it to become dark as we went. And so, I wanted you know, as sunset happens, you know, as the sun goes down, it will get dark. But I still wanted some light in there. So, he would know that because he's been there so long, so many times. And so, I really love that little detail that we added, I added that he'd like pill for those candles and sneak them upstairs to let you know what a romantic he is. And, you know, an interesting thing happened is the, and I hope I'm remembering it right. But the first, you know, five takes, we did of the wide shot, they come in holding hands and it was cool, like, you know, that's what the actors chose to do. And I watched it and I was like, oh, yeah, this is all looking really good. And then I was like, no, they're not holding hands. They're too nervous to hold hands. It's that thing where they're like, oh my God, I'm not sure if we're here for the reason I think we're here or not. But suddenly we're alone. And like all the bravado of being with my Pogues or being at odds with you and, you know, you know, having sarcastic banter about you being a Kook and me being a Pogue, that's all stripped away. So, now I'm like baring my soul in front of you. And so, I feel like he'd be too nervous to hold her hands. It's too presumptuous. So, after we shot all of all of those takes, I think we even moved on to another set up. I said, you guys, no, no, no we have to go back. It's not right. You cannot be holding hands. And so, we did a take with them, not holding hands coming in. And that's what we used. And so, you know, just little details like that say everything. And so, then when we got up into the bell tower, which, you know, we shot on a stage because it was just not safe to be up in the actual one, it was too dilapidated. So, we did that on a stage, and it was really fun because Chase, who plays John B and Maddy Cline, who plays Sarah, are so collaborative. And just, the whole cast is, and you know, what we knew is we wanted this to feel different than her scene with Topper in I think its episode three or four. And even though she does have this wall up that she's not, she doesn't want to have sex with somebody now and even emotionally, she wants to run from commitment. The fact, what would change her mind? And, what would change her mind is somebody who, it really doesn't matter whether, you know, that's what they do. He's there for her. Who she is and her soul. And so, you know, it was really important that this was the first guy she ever talked to who really, who was really there just to support her in an authentic way. And so, you know, it was really fun. We'd do takes and then we'd sort of like find a quiet area and sidebar, and be like "what did you guys think?" And "I felt this" and "why don't you do this with this line”, and they'd be like "yeah, yeah" and they'd go back in and we'd do more takes. And, you know, there's like hundred people in the crew around, but it felt like a bubble with just the three of us. And it was just really, really fun to shoot. Because I felt like it really, it really reflected a lot of feelings I had at that age and you know, around those experiences.
Madeline [00:29:37] I think it's so interesting to hear you talk about this from your side of the table, because from an audience perspective, Becca and I when we were watching series and I think a lot of the listeners, you wonder how does it go from a script to the magic of on screen where you actually have that chemistry? And I think, you know, for all the women who are watching, they want to just crawl right in there and be right there with John B in that scene. So, to understand how that magic actually happens in the process and all the elements, I mean, music and lighting, like you said, how long did it take you to actually shoot the scene? Was it hundreds of takes or?
Valerie [00:30:10] Yeah. I mean, you know, we moved really fast on the series. It's a very ambitious series, as you know, from watching, particularly, well all the episodes are huge, but there was a lot of action in seven and eight and I can't remember how many days we had. I think we had like eight days or eight and a half days, which is not a lot. So, we always had to be moving. And also, we really wanted to shoot as much during magic hour so we could get that golden look as possible. So, we'd often be like, alright we got to leave this location to get to the next one so that it, you know, we can get the light. And so, you know, we never had more than a couple hours for any scene. And so, yeah, it was just, that was the challenge of always like making that outside of us and making us feel like we were in this protected capsule, even though there was always the pressure of time and schedule. And, and just to that point of what you're saying about John B, I mean, I definitely, as a director draw on, I make it as personal as possible. I tell stories about my kids sometimes or, you know, my life or my past. And I remember, you know, one of my first dates with my husband, who also went to Princeton, just like for me, John B and that scene is how I felt on my first dates with my husband. I remember him saying, like, yeah, we, we don't have to do anything. I'll talk to you for thirty-five hours straight. And, you know, it's just like that's romantic. That's how you fall in love with somebody.
Madeline [00:31:40] Oh, I absolutely love that. You're bringing in your personal experiences into the characters and into how that the scene is set. It's just so interesting. In terms of, how do you know as a director Valerie, when you are satisfied with a shot, when you're like, OK, this is it. It's done.
Valerie [00:31:58] Yeah, I mean, to me, you know, I guess when I read it, I see it and hear it in my head, but not so much like something concrete. It's more like an emotional experience, like on the page. And the first time I read a script I'll write down when I cry, I'll write down when I laugh, I'll make smiley faces. And so, I know that what, what the bar is that's set for me for that or why I like it. You know, somebody else might have a different reaction, but that's why I want to do a particular movie or episode is because of, you know, how I react to it. And so, that sort of shapes an emotional journey for me. And so, I really spend and that's to me the most important part. I mean, visuals are absolutely important, too. But I think everybody can feel authenticity in acting and emotion. And so, if that if that's not there, I will never move on. And so, it's really a process of getting to know the actors. And that's what was so fun about this show is, you know, they were so friendly, these kids. And my family was there. We were hanging out with them way before I ever did my episodes. And Chase would text me and ask me questions about a scene he was shooting, you know, days in advance. We could talk about it before we ever got to set, and all the kids were like that. So, by the time we were shooting, we had a shorthand. We all know what we wanted out of a scene. And so, it was really like letting them try things because sometimes you're surprised, but also helping them get into the zone, so they hit those really important emotional stakes and beats. And as soon as we do that, I'm ready to move on.
Madeline [00:33:44] And so as a director, brings me to the question of how much of an artistic license you give to, say, Madelyn Cline and Chase Stokes in that scene. What kind of input do they have? As they are up there and in character and feeling how it's going, what's the artistic license in that balance between being the director and allowing the actor and actress to make some of those decisions?
Valerie [00:34:06] Yeah. So, it's a great question and it's a little bit of magic. You know, it's kind of the same thing, the same thing that makes you a great parent or a great boss. Right? Like, if you hire well, set your, set your agenda and your standards and, you know, are working with the right people, the best thing to do is let them run free. Right? If you raise your kids right and, you know, teach them to be respectful and kind and conscientious, then you should give them a wide berth. And this was a fun show because Jonas and the show runners, were, they kind of emulated that. They were like, hey, we're so psyched you're here. We'd love your dailies and something's not working, shoot it in a new location, like do what you want. Just get it on the page once. But, you know, whatever you think, just make it better if it needs to be better. And so, I felt so much freedom and autonomy in this project in particular, which is not what you typically feel in TV. So, and that's how I direct typically with actors. So, it was really refreshing. And, you know, this cast is so good. They're just, they really know their roles. And so, I always let, you know we'll talk ahead of time about what's the main idea of the scene. But I just let them go. And then it's really like a nudge here, a nudge there or saying, "I love that, that’s totally one way we can go, we might want the choice later to make this a little more dramatic. So, what if we tried this?" And often they'll see it the same way. It's rare that an actor doesn't or resists, but when they do, if there's trust there, they'll be like, "OK, I gave you that. I'll give you this." Or they'll say, "I did that, but please don't use it. But don't let them use it." But that just really never happened on this show. It was very collaborative and trusting.
Madeline [00:36:04] So the last part of the scene, kind of you leave it as a mystery. So, they're going to spend this romantic night up there. And I think that's so captivating to the audience because you kind of use your imagination, right, to see what happens. Can you tell us what your thinking was behind that?
Valerie [00:36:18] Yeah, I think, you know, it almost doesn't matter what happens when the lights go out. The scene is over. What matters is that Sarah's had an arc. She's made a decision to let somebody in and whatever that means, like maybe they're going to talk all night. Maybe they're just going to kiss. Maybe they're going to have their first sexual or her first sexual experience. But that's not the important part. The important part is that she's found a way to trust somebody that she's never had before. And we know she's going to be different because of that. And so that's why I love that ending is, is the arc has been reached. Just dramatically we've, we've delivered on what we set up at the beginning of the series and in the beginning of that scene. And I think it's, it's always better. And I think, you know, like you said, as you know, you guys had a reaction as women watching that, you know, your own romantic ideals about it. I think, let you have your own, you know, chapter two to what happened there, let you imagine it how you want to imagine it. But I think they put enough of a seed in everyone's mind that now the audience owns what happens after that scene.
Madeline [00:37:35] We just loved it. And to talk about another scene that was really pivotal and interesting was the hot tub scene where JJ's had this fight with, over money that was supposed to go towards restitution with his father. And then he ends up drinking and buying this hot tub and you've just got the disco ball and the champagne. And it's all decked out. To harken back to something you said earlier in the interview, about these big themes that teenagers are dealing with is heavy duty, mature, mature things where, you know, he's a young man, he's dealing with domestic abuse by his father and all of the socio economic challenges of growing up poor and not having certain luxuries. What was your vision for the scene? Because it seemed like you were capturing such incredible raw emotion from this, from the character JJ.
Valerie [00:38:22] Yeah. Thank you so much. That's also one of my favorite, favorite scenes. It all starts with identifying what that theme is of the series, or just personally for me, what's my way in? And, you know, when I look at Outer Banks, it's really about chasing something you think you want, but getting what you need. Right? It almost doesn't matter whether these kids get the gold. They all need something from this journey because they're all stuck. Where they are is not good enough for them to become adults. It's not, it's not the end of the journey for them, it's the beginning. And in the case of JJ, this is, this is really clear. And, you know, he's got this dad who's abusive. And the real tragic part of that is he still wants his dad's love, like he still thinks if he comes back with the right report card or the money or whatever it is, his dad will finally love him and be a better dad. But that's just not going to happen. And so, what's amazing about his arc in, I guess its episode seven where both these things happen is that, you know, he puts his dad, like his need for his dad to love him above his friends. Right? That's why he's so reckless with Barry's trailer and that's why he goes off on his own. And when that fails, and that was an amazing scene to shoot, that was really fun, that fight with his dad. And we improved some stuff at the end where, you know, JJ holds the wrench up and thinks that he could kill his dad. And then he says, I'm not afraid of you when he realizes, that that's the first time he's like, I'm done like I, I actually don't need your approval. So, that's the beginning of where we go in the hot tub scene. And so, when we find him in the hot tub scene, he's lost because the thing he was living for, this one singular goal, which is to get his dad to love him, is no more. And what do you do you know if you're a ballerina and you can't dance again or you know, whatever it is when you have that tremendous loss? What, what do you fill it with? And so, he's you know, filled it with these idle ideas of a hot tub and, you know, just being really irresponsible. And so, the heartbreak of the scene is that he, his friends already know that they're his family and that he didn't quite know that, even though it was so obvious from the beginning of their friendship that they would have been there because he was so blinded by wanting this other thing. And so, the catharsis, and I think that's why it's so moving is that, you know, when he when Kiara says, "we're your family." Which I don't even know if that was scripted. It's just like, oh, you dumb ass. Like I wish you knew that all along. You could have saved yourself so much pain with your dad. And so, we were lucky in that, you know, film and TV often shoot out of order, but we shot those scenes sequentially. And so, when we did the hot tub scene, Rudy and I were able to keep going back. And when I wanted him to really let go, I would like whispering his ear. I was like, "remember that moment where your dad was choking you? I think he was gonna kill you. He was really going to kill you." And you saw it in his eyes. And it's like, huh? And I planned that when I shot that scene, I was like, I want that moment. It's not about the violence. It's about what Rudy sees in his dad's eyes that this man has no, anything left for him. And so, it was great to be able to pull those moments out when we're shooting. And also, to surprise Rudy with that. Right? And have an actor who's so willing to trust you and let you do that with them so that when he was showing us that on screen, he literally was feeling it seconds before for the first time. And so, I think that's part of why that scene is so effective.
Madeline [00:42:24] Yeah, it was incredibly poignant. And he did such a good job. I mean, you know, he's so, he just looks like a carefree teenager and you almost watch him transform with the raw emotion of standing up out of the water with the evidence of the abuse and his friends and the connection between them, that bond. It was just incredibly powerful for us watching it.
Valerie [00:42:43] Yeah. Thank you. That's great. Yeah. We planned, I planned that the bruises, when we were doing the first scene with his dad and we were staging with our stunt coordinator, Toby's amazing, where the hits would happen. I said, no, nothing on the face because I want it to be a surprise when he stands out of the water. I was like, let's do the hits to the tummy when he has him up against the wall. And because that reveal is just so heartbreaking, you can't hide it. He can pretend everything's fine until he, he can't. The evidence is right there.
Madeline [00:43:15] And then how, you know, the hug and the emotion just coming out of him from being so happy. You know, this sort of fake happy and drinking and then, you know, just sort of collapsing in her arms and crying. It was just that raw emotion really came through, I think, on screen.
Valerie [00:43:28] Oh, that's great. Yeah. I had the idea I wanted Kiara to get in the tub with him. It wasn't in the script. And I was like, you know what? Like, you would, you would get in there, right? He's not going to come to her. He's not coming to the edge of a hot tub to be hugged. She needs to go in and get him. And so, you know, we talked, I was like, "hey, we're gonna need," because, you know, we have no time to shoot these scenes. And I was like, we need, you know costume changes. And she's like, "no, no, no, it's fine." She's like, "I can be wet and my microphone, don't worry about it. I'll just." Like, she's amazing. They're all amazing. She's like, "I just make it happen. Don't worry. We don't need a reset." And yeah, we pulled it off.
Madeline [00:44:08] It was another great scene. So just from the series overall, what, what do you think the magic is of the series? I mean, that just it has been so wildly successful and just captivated, you know audiences across the world.
Valerie [00:44:23] I think there's a few elements that have made it what it is. And it's interesting because you can't plan a hit like this. You can't manufacture this. What's successful about it is that it is not manufactured and doesn't feel that way. I think, you know, the, the, the origin or the idea of the series is magical. Right? Like huge stakes for these kids, but in a very magical environment. And the magic is, it's realism. But those sunsets, being on the water, the clothing, like it's just a world. It's a fantasy we want to live in, but it doesn't feel superficial or trite. Like Gossip Girl is also an amazing, beautiful fantasy. But it's a superficial fantasy, right? It's not aspirational in terms of, you know, having good values, I guess. And so, I think that is part of a really good formula. I also think, you know, the Pates and Shannon, like they're of a certain, there's a nostalgia to the show. I think that's what's also nice about the scene with Chase and Maddy in the belltower. Like, there's a "chasteness" to the show that I think makes you able to watch it. I watch it with my kids, you know, and I think, you know, parents are like, oh, that's what, that's what the 80s, 90s were like. And, you know, so there's that. But yet it feels modern and fresh because the kids are just so real, and the acting is so real. So, I think in terms of the creation of the series, those things are part of why it's very successful. But then beyond that, the two other really important elements are that the Pate's are just like the warmest, kindest guys you'll ever meet. They're just, they're so excited and generous and inspiring. And so, once you're on their team, you just, you just feel so, so much part of the family and you just want to also make great work with them. And I think they make the cast feel that way. The casting is just, they did a phenomenal job. And these kids, I still talk to them regularly and they're just as sweet and kind today as they were a year ago and nobody knew who they were. And, yeah, I just, I feel very lucky that I got to be part of this little moment in television history.
Madeline [00:47:00] And so just in terms of, what was your just your favorite thing from the series and what are you looking forward to in season two? What are you excited about?
Valerie [00:47:10] Yeah, I mean, what's really fun is they all came of age. Every one of these characters grew up and they're different. I mean, Pope you know, we talked about how Rudy grew up. Pope really had a huge arc from thinking, "you know, I got to do what my parents want, and validation is gonna come from that scholarship" to being like, "no, no, I don't need validation. I am important and special. And, you know, I get to choose the path I want," which is I think probably the most relatable arc for most kids watching. And then, you know, the love story. My God. When they're in the storm in episode 10. And, you know, he apologized. John B apologizes for getting Sarah into this. And she's like, "what are you talking about? I'd go anywhere with you." It's like, oh, you know, you dream of watching. It's like The Notebook with Ryan Gosling and Rachel McAdams. It's that romantic. To me, it's like the pinnacle of teenage romance. So, so I think it's going to be really fun to see now that these kids who played at being adults and then became adults in season I. Now, what do they do? Now that everyone is going to treat them like adults because they've proven themselves. Well, that's a new challenge, right? Like you fight, fight, fight in your teenage years for independence. But then once you get it, you know, you know that that's when the real problems start. So, I'm really curious to see how we, how they handle it.
Madeline [00:48:44] Well, congratulations on your involvement and all of your success with Outer Banks, we are just, we can't wait to see what season II has in store for us.
Madeline [00:49:03] I want to shift and talk a little bit about just women in filmmaking and just ask from your perspective, how challenging is it to become a director and specifically a female director? Because as we, as you mentioned earlier, there's just so few women in leadership roles and positions in film. So, can you speak to that a little bit?
Valerie [00:49:25] Sure. I mean, it's really challenging for anyone to become a director. It's, it's one of the hardest jobs, but it's also one of the most fun and exciting jobs. So obviously, everybody wants to do it. So, the competition is, is fierce. And, and, you know, the gamble when you hire a director is huge because episodes are really expensive, movies are really expensive, and you're really putting everything in the hands of this one leader and hoping that they, they deliver the vision that you all want. And so, it's certainly not an easy career to be hired and sustain a living at. But it is just incredible. And then in terms of being a female director, I mean, I've never, ever felt any issues or at any disadvantage working as a director, certainly getting hired for sure. And, you know, it's very well documented, the systemic sexism and racism in our industry. And thankfully, that has been you know, people have begun to remedy that issue in the last few years, which is why all my friends are now working. Really talented, Emmy nominated, Oscar nominated directors who 10 years ago couldn't get hired on an indie film. And so, that's amazing and depressing that, you know, those barriers kept talented people from working. And there's still a lot of, a lot of work that we need to do to have more people of color directing. And what I'm seeing, I'm encouraged by, I see studios taking it very seriously. And I see groups of people, you know, other directors being allies and fighting for more equality and more diversity among our group and supporting each other. So, you know, I think in the face of these obstacles, it's made a lot of us closer and fight for each other, which is really great, because being a director is super lonely, there's only one director on set. And so, you don't really have anyone else who shares the same responsibilities or knows what you're going through. So, to have, to have a cohort who's going through it and rising with you is, is incredibly valuable.
Madeline [00:51:54] So, for our younger listeners, what advice do you have for them, other women who want to become directors?
Valerie [00:52:02] Yeah, I mean, I would say the pandemic's a gift to all of us. You know, it's also horrible for so many reasons. But, for anyone who wants to be an artist, this is a beautiful time to not have distractions and to study and learn. There's so many classes. My friend Jason Ensler who is a director, he's doing a film class for a film school as a fundraiser. And I just did a test, a test run with him. And it's an incredible film class. And so many people are running these different classes right now. So, you know, seeking out education right now is, it's cheaper and easier than it's ever been. There's so many free seminars. You know, and then I'd say make stuff. You know, everybody has an iPhone. There is zero excuse not to get out there and make something and edit it with iMovie and find your voice and learn and just create. If you don't use this time to do that, then you're not really meant to be an artist or a director, because that's what we do, is we, we just feel compelled to make things and share things. And you're working whether someone's paying you or not. And so, that's what I suggest. Read and get to know yourself and what your point of view is and what you think. And I think there's never been a better time to work on your craft.
Madeline [00:53:28] So, what has helped you gain confidence as a filmmaker?
Valerie [00:53:34] It's a good question. I think the more I work and, you know, I mean, I always felt very confident about what my contribution as a director is. When I, ever since I did plays and even when I acted, I felt very secure in my instincts and my message. You know, moving into television and film, there's definitely an intimidation factor because suddenly you're surrounded by a hundred people who want to know the answer. They want to know what you want. Constantly. It's question after question after question. What's your vision? And so, there's a certainly a learning curve. But I've been really lucky to have amazing mentors. My first TV show was Chicago Med and I was hired by Michael Waxman, who actually used to do Friday Night Lights and knows Jonas. And he was just, I couldn't have asked for a better first job. Like he was in every prep meeting. And he was, he was very excited about my master's in medical sciences. So, he was always talking about it and, and pumping me up. And it was fun to be in a place that, you know, my first show was a language I really spoke the medical aspects. So, I had a lot to contribute. And so, I think, every time you do something that reflects your vision and is appreciated either by the cast, crew or an audience, you just grow. But you can't control that. Right? Because you're gonna do a lot of things that diverge from what other people want, but hopefully you have enough support along the way. You know, I have a great manager, too, who's just been amazing every step of the way. And every time I get nervous or anxious about something, he always has great wisdom. So, I think surrounding yourself by people you really admire and trust who are good sounding boards and know when to just tell you your worries are just, their, not that they're not real, but they're normal parts of just being excited about something and wanting it to work. You get better and better at doing that for yourself and telling and telling those, those voices to go away so you can get your work done.
Madeline [00:55:55] Thank you. And that's, that's, it's so good to hear, especially in your position now, somebody with experience, such incredible success. And so, for our listeners who perhaps are in other industries. Do you have any other advice just for developing self-confidence along the way?
Valerie [00:56:11] Yeah, I went to, I'll answer this with something I've been thinking about a lot lately. I did a, I did kind of a webinar with Maddy Cline and Maddie Bailey from Outer Banks for this. My friend's Well Fit Girls. She has this nonprofit where these girls gain confidence through climbing mountains and they eventually go to Peru and, and they climb. And, you know, that had to be curtailed because of the pandemic. So, we did something online with those girls. And Maddy, Maddy Cline was many climbers talking about imposter syndrome. And, you know, I hear about imposter syndrome a lot. And I always, I mostly hear it related to women. Right? And I was thinking about it because I was like, you know, and you always hear about it as sort of a negative thing, like, "oh, I get, I get imposter syndrome and I do this to myself." And I was like, wait a minute, you're unbelievably successful. All these women who I've heard talk about this, you know, are very successful. So maybe it's not a syndrome. Like maybe it's not something negative. Maybe it's just adrenaline helping you remember that this thing's really important to you. So, don't mess it up. You know, and so I think that's part of what we need to do as women is not, we need to honor our feelings and not think that they're pejorative or holding us back. But find ways to like, let them know, like they empower us and just sort of flip the script in our brains, that it's not a weakness. It's, it's just, it's just that maybe it's a steppingstone to fulfilling the image that we want for ourselves.
Madeline [00:57:52] You know, it's really interesting you say that because one of our early guests, who is a professor and incredibly successful, said just that, that the imposter syndrome has helped her in her entire career. Because she's always had that sort of "am I good enough?" And it's just propelled her forward in a positive way, actually, to always reach for more and the next, you know, interesting, exciting, you know, thing that she was chasing all of the time. So, the ability, I think, to perhaps harness that.
Valerie [00:58:19] Yeah.
Madeline [00:58:20] For positive in your life.
Valerie [00:58:21] I agree. I think it's not going to go away. And I think she's right. And I would, I would love us to start changing the language around it to be what she's talking about. And I think the answer is to acknowledge it and then find comfort. Like I mentioned with, you know, my manager or the supportive people in my life, because you don't need much. Really you need to be able to go to someone and say, "I'm feeling nervous or I'm feeling like I can't do it. I need a hug right now" or whatever it is, like finding healthy ways to sort of, you know, satisfy it so you can keep going. I think that would be really valuable work for us to do around that so that we can, not have one more thing that we feel like it's getting in our way.
Becca [00:59:18] We hope you enjoyed our interview with Valerie Weiss, Outer Banks is now streaming on Netflix. Don't be surprised if you find yourself watching it a second time. You can also watch A Light Beneath Their Feet available on Amazon Prime video. You can follow Valerie on Instagram @valerie.weiss.director. If you enjoyed listening to our podcast hit subscribe and leave us a review. Thank you to Nico Vettese for composing our original music. And thank you always to our home team of friends and family for supporting us in our mission. This episode was produced and edited by Madeline and Becca. Thanks for tuning in. And remember, you are somebody.