Sarah Choi is a children's book author from Houston, Texas. As the daughter of first generation Korean immigrants, Sarah had certain career expectations placed on her, but made the decision to forge her own path. She began her career as a cause marketing and communications consultant before transitioning into freelance writing. Sarah wrote on food and lifestyle topics for a variety of publications such as Food Network Magazine, RachaelRay.com, Dr. Oz, The Good Life Magazine and Red Tricycle. Sarah will discuss how apprenticing in a New York City butcher shop changed her life, how she got her start writing and the power of authenticity. Sarah will also share her journey of hustling and her belief that worthwhile things don't come easy. As an author, one of Sarah's goals for her young audience is for them to see and gain access to Asian American life and people.
You will learn about...
To connect with Sarah Choi click HERE
For show notes click HERE
Connect with Madeline & Becca HERE
Follow us HERE
If you enjoyed this episode it would mean the world to us if you could leave a review for The Madeline and Becca Podcast on iTunes HERE
If you are interested in being a guest on our show or have topics you would like us to highlight, please email us: info@madelineandbecca.com
On The Madeline & Becca Podcast, we chat with leading women from a variety of industries about their career journeys and how they developed professional self-confidence.
Produced by Madeline and Becca
Episode #19: Staying true to yourself with Sarah Choi
Sarah [00:00:00] I love the definition of luck. You know, I think there's a lot of luck in life and in love and in work and the definition of luck that I love is preparedness meeting opportunity. We don't need to worry about the opportunity, but we just need to worry about the preparedness part. And again, for me, that preparedness part was honing in on what do I love to do? What are my skills? Believing those things, talking to people about them and working on them, of course, practicing. I mean, I was writing, writing all sorts of stuff for free, you know. So, having the actual trade skills as well helps, of course.
Madeline & Becca [00:00:43] Welcome to The Madeline and Becca Podcast. The mission of our podcast is simple to inspire professional self-confidence in women everywhere. I'm Madeline. And I'm Becca. On our podcast, you will hear stories from real world influencers, women who have experienced tremendous success in their careers by building self-confidence. Thanks for joining us.
Becca [00:01:22] Today, we chat with Sara Choi, a children's book author from Houston, Texas. As the daughter of first generation Korean immigrants, Sarah had certain career expectations placed on her, but made the decision to forge her own path. She began her career as a cause marketing and communications consultant before transitioning into freelance writing. Sarah wrote on food and lifestyle topics for a variety of publications such as Food Network Magazine, RachaelRay.com, Dr. Oz, The Good Life Magazine and Red Tricycle. On today's episode, Sarah will discuss how apprenticing in a New York City butcher shop changed her life, how she got her start writing and the power of authenticity. Sarah will also share her journey of hustling and her belief that worthwhile things don't come easy. As an author, one of Sarah's goals for her young audience is for them to see and gain access to Asian American life and people. Here's Madeline.
Madeline [00:02:32] How did you make a choice to go into writing?
Sarah [00:02:36] Actually, it's a really funny story. I really resisted it for a really long time. I'm going to share a story that's kind of like I don't talk a lot about, but it's kind of formative and it's a reason why it took me so long. But I loved writing when I was a child. And, you know, for third grade, I'd ask for a typewriter so I could write stories. And I really loved writing. And then when I went into fifth grade, I transferred schools. And one of our first assignments, you know, in the first week of school was to write a paper about our summer. And so, we all wrote papers about what we did over the summer. What was our favorite thing about summer? And at the end of our writing session, the teacher went through and picked the best example of writing and the worst example of writing. And the teacher picked my paper as the worst example of writing. And I was horrified and embarrassed and just really felt awful about, you know, like about (a.) my writing and then myself. And, I was new to the school as well. And so, I sort of wasn't sure, like, how am I going to navigate this new school? Thankfully, the teacher had the, I guess thoughtfulness to not say who wrote the paper. She just read it aloud and then pointed out all of the faults of the paper. But even still, just knowing that it was me and carrying that around, it completely changed my outlook on my ability to write and, yeah, and so it just sort of killed my writing dreams. And so, all through the rest of school, middle school, high school, I told myself that I couldn't write. I became very afraid to write. I doubted my writing. It created a lot of insecurity. I went to college and same thing. You know, in college, you're writing major term papers. And a lot of my exams were essay based. And I was just panicked because I carried around this narrative of, I can't write, I'm the worst writer. And then I kept finding myself in these careers where writing was essential. So, you know, I became a corporate paralegal assistant before I went to law school and I thought, oh, my gosh, if I go to law school, I'm going to have to write a ton. And then when I realized I didn't want to go to law school and had done the legal field, I decided to investigate communications and same thing, you need to write PR releases and marketing materials. And I just kept finding myself in writing. And it was finally in that first job after my sort of legal path gone wrong, I realized, you know what, I may not be as bad at this as I thought. And I just sort of, so literally, I was twenty-four when I started to think, OK, maybe I can write. So, I started to, you know, really find my groove in the communications and marketing areas. I loved it. It turned out I was pretty decent at it. And that shifted my narrative again and I thought, oh, maybe someday I can start writing for magazines or, you know, online publications that were growing. And I started to kind of see a door opening to that. And, I finally just went for it after my first son was born, because I think there's something about when you become a mom, you realize, like, you know, I have to, like I can do anything. First of all, I just delivered a 10 pound baby. I think I can do a lot; you know. And then also for me, it became this, I have to live my life and model the way I want my child to live. So, it was this combination of I can do anything, and I've got to be authentic and model what real living is.
Madeline [00:06:41] I love that. And you can prove your fifth grade teacher wrong.
Sarah [00:06:45] Yeah, you know, it's actually a book that I want to write because, as you know, I write for children's books and I don't, I mean, I write for children and I don't know if that's an accident. You know, I think oftentimes in the children's book industry, they say that you're drawn to it and you're writing for children really for your own childhood wounds, that I think maybe this is something that is going to resurface in one of my books or characters.
Madeline [00:07:09] I love it. And maybe a theme about overcoming that type of a challenge. I mean, those are such formative years to have a teacher call that out. It's just, it's kind of a what not to do when teaching, I think. So, in terms of getting your freelance writing career started, can you tell us sort of the actionable first steps that you took? How did you land jobs? I know you've worked for some high profile food and lifestyle assignments such as Food Network Magazine, RachaelRay.com, Dr. Oz, The Good Life Magazine, Red Tricycle, all of these big names. How did you actually find these assignments and also land them?
Sarah [00:07:47] You know, so Red Tricycle is this wonderful online publication for urban families with editions in a lot of the major U.S. cities. And at the time, though, it was really only on the West Coast. And I was living in San Francisco and I had just found it on my own as a new mother looking for things to do. And I sent it to a couple of friends saying, hey, this is a fun resource. You should check this out. My friend emailed me back and said, hey, this is great. By the way, I don't see any articles related to food and dining out. And you're so great at sort of finding all the good gems in San Francisco for families. Why don't you write about it? Like pitch them. And I was like, huh, that's interesting. I thought, OK, well, why not? I mean, I have nothing to lose. At the time, I had just graduated from grad school and I kind of didn't know what I even wanted to do with my life. So, I thought, OK, I'll just go for it. So, I emailed the editor of the San Francisco edition and I didn't even have a portfolio of freelance materials, but I at least had a background in PR and marketing. And I could speak to the fact that I had a writing background I could promote and, you know, I could write and in a really sort of positive way, if you will, about lots of different topics. And what was so awesome was the editor didn't come back and then say, oh, OK. interesting, send me what you've written. Instead, she said, why don't you write two pieces that you think would be a good fit for Red Tricycle? And if they are, we'll publish them and then we can talk more about, you know, writing, writing future features. And I said, OK, great, that I can do. So, it was actually a really great opportunity to prove myself in the moment. And also, the editor, was just so gracious in not having the expectation that people would come with this huge portfolio. And I'm really grateful for that, that open mindedness and that, you know, the way that she approached it. And so, I ended up writing two pieces and she said she loved them and that they were a great fit. And then that's how I jumped in and I, yeah, I just went for it that way.
Madeline [00:10:04] And so, how do you actually, you know in terms of I mean, you just said that you've got to kind of have the ability to pick the topics that you want to write about. So, for a lot of the higher profile assignment that you've worked on, is that typically how it works, that they kind of give you the creative license to go out and pick what you want to do? Or do they typically give you more of a narrow scope of what they want for the fit of the assignment?
Sarah [00:10:28] It depends publication to publication. So, for Red Tricycle, it was great. I had full creative license. I could just share with the editor what I'd been seeing and looking at and come up with a story idea and she would yay or nay them and she would mostly yay them. And so, that was really fun. But, you know, I also thankfully had such a passion for food and dining that I had just a plethora of options. And I knew so much to write about. But, for Food Network magazine, I actually wrote on the advertorial side, on the, for advertisers, and it was more copywriting based and there were very much narrow confines because there were goals for the advertisers that I needed to fulfill. But I love confines. I love, you know, having to write to say something, you know taking a lot of information and making it sort of narrow with a specific message. So, that was a very different style of writing. And then, for like Rachael Ray, I actually ended up doing recipe testing and photography for Rachael Ray's huge database. And what was fun about that project or those projects, I should say, is we could pick from the recipe database whatever recipe we wanted. So, if it looked good to us and we felt like doing it, we would just take the assignment and say, hey, I want to cook this. And then, we also got to eat it after so that was fun too.
Madeline [00:12:05] Huge bonus.
Sarah [00:12:06] Yeah, I ended up cooking some, you know, a lot of family meals from that exercise just based on what I thought looked and tasted good.
Madeline [00:12:13] So, how did you work in terms of actually working with bigger brands? How did you actually land those types of jobs? For our listeners who were thinking about, geez, I really want to be a freelance writer, how do I get my start? How do I actually land jobs? Was it, what worked for you? Was it sort of developing certain skill sets and marketing yourself, a media presence, your network? What, what helped you?
Sarah [00:12:35] So, for me personally, I think it was staying very attuned to what do I love? What am I passionate about? What is my dream? And then putting myself out there in a relational point of view, meaning just talking to people and sharing, sharing my passions and what I was hoping to do, you know? So, I have to say that I feel like a lot of my opportunities came from other women. And I've been really fortunate to, I guess, nurture relationships with women who saw something in me. And I think that something in me is really just being attuned to what I knew, what I loved and working on it. So, I guess it sounds kind of vague. But, you know, I do think it's important to tell people what it is that you're looking for. And then they kind of help, you know, open doors or they think of things or people that you might want to speak to about X, Y, Z. You know. I think, I love the definition of luck. You know, I think there's a lot of luck in life and in love and in work. And the definition of luck that I love is preparedness meeting opportunity. We don't need to worry about the opportunity, but we just need to worry about the preparedness part. And again, for me, that preparedness part was homing in on what do I love to do? What are my skills? Believing those things, talking to people about them and working on them, of course, practicing. I mean, I was writing, writing all sorts of stuff for free, you know. So, having the actual trade skills as well helps, of course.
Madeline [00:14:21] Yes, I was going to ask you sort of what the most challenging aspect of being a freelance writer. Was it having to write a lot for free and making those sacrifices, or what was most challenging to you?
Sarah [00:14:33] You know, actually, the biggest challenge for me was never knowing if I was going to get another job, you know? Like you're kind of at the whim of your clients and at the whim of your last piece of work. And for me, it was actually kind of motivating, like, this could be the last job I ever have, so, I'm going to, like, really make this awesome. You know, that was actually the scariest thing for me.
Madeline [00:14:58] And along the way, I imagine there were probably plenty of jobs that you didn't get. How did you handle the process of being rejected and having to sort of go on to the next project? And would you have any advice for our listeners who are, you know, working through that process in their own careers?
Sarah [00:15:17] Oh, gosh, you know, rejection is really, really tough. I had to work on normalizing my fear of rejection and that it was just a part of a freelance life that you couldn't please everyone and everything. And I think that I actually had a lot of experience, to you know, to sort of fall back on whether it's being an Asian-American woman navigating corporate worlds, whether it's falling short of what I perceived as my parents’ expectations of me professionally. You know, just, I guess letting go of the idea that you needed to be a particular thing versus just be yourself. The other thing is to let go of the expectation of ease. I think sometimes people navigate life, we navigate life and we just want things to be easier. We expect things to be easy. And when I started to expect that things would just be difficult but would be worth it in the end. That really helped me to.
Madeline [00:16:22] It's really, really good advice. And I think really relatable because we all face challenges and sometimes it is really, really difficult to get to the goals that you're working towards. I want to ask a little bit about your work with cookbooks, because I think our listeners are like, that's such a cool topic and such a cool area. And I think there's so many people with unbelievable passion for food and for dining. First, can you just tell our listeners a little bit about the type of the cookbook projects that you've worked on?
Sarah [00:16:51] Oh, yeah. I mean. It was not, it was not glorified work. You know, it sounds great, but the reality is, is that I basically apprenticed on these cookbooks in the beginning. I worked for free. I did a lot of manual labor, you know. I ended up meeting a food stylist who became a very good friend through a friend. And I'd always had this dream to work on cookbooks. And I just reached out to her and I said, hey, Nora, you know, if you ever need some help on a cookbook, would you please let me know? I'd be willing to work for free for the experience. I just want to sort of get my head around whether this is something I could pursue or not. And she wrote back right away and said, sure, you know, come next week. Right, it was like a very short timeline. And I went to go work with her. And I worked for free on several cookbook projects, actually. And, you know, I ended up, you know, everything from like frying potatoes and getting oil burns to carrying, like, all sorts of cookware. You know, it was a lot of manual labor. I wasn't afraid of the manual labor. And of the working for free because I didn't have that expectation of ease. You know, I just sort of understood and knew that if I wanted to do something cool, that it was going to be a little difficult to get there. But those cool things, I don't think they come easy. You know?
Madeline [00:18:25] And I read that you had interned in a butcher shop in New York. What was that like?
Sarah [00:18:29] Oh, that's actually one of my most favorite influential life experiences. I still think about it pretty much on a daily basis and how I think it really changed my life. I don't think I mean; I know it did. You know, I went to intern there. Again, I actually did a lot of apprenticing. I worked for free in the Butcher Shop. Those were very exhausting days because it's a lot of manual labor. I think the key for me is that manual labor actually brings a lot of enlightenment and gratitude for life honestly. But there was an apprenticeship available at the butcher shop and I applied for it. I actually knew the butcher shop and was cooking a lot of nose to tail just on, you know, on my own. And so, I told them, like, hey, I'm really interested in apprenticing. And they, you know, we're like, huh? That's interesting because you're a consumer or why would you want to do that? But, you know, I explained that I was a writer and I was also looking for some professional inspiration. I knew I needed to get out of my own box and kind of see and do something different to kind of shake things up. So, that's what led me to the butchering internship. And I walked in there and the first thing I realized was, wow, like in this room, you're literally facing life and death, you know, life meaning we're living and we're doing this work. But death in the literal products that your handling, you know, and how much work it takes to create a life in an animal, then to slaughter that animal and then to feed people to give life. It was just this really weird, like full circle life death experience, you know. And I just immediately found huge gratitude for not just the opportunity, but to have life you know and to be working in death in life. It just sounds kind of crazy, but.
Madeline [00:20:36] And how did it influence then the inspiration for your own work in the cookbook world?
Sarah [00:20:46] You know, I don't know that it necessarily was a direct path to wanting to write or work in cookbooks or to write for Food Network magazine. I actually kind of see it as more of a personal revelation of being grateful for where I was in my own personal life, for having respect for so many different kinds of people. You know, you can imagine like in a butcher shop, there are people from all different walks of life working there. And I connected to my own humanity and the humanity of others working there. And, of course, got to know butchery and cooking, lots of different kinds of meats better. I mean, of course, that's a positive influence. But really, it was the gratitude I had for everyday life and not taking life for granted. That is what sort of helped give me more courage to go out and do whatever I wanted.
Madeline [00:21:50] What an incredible experience. It sounds like it had a real profound impact on your life. Can you tell us what it was like to manage to the kitchen for the cookbook, Treat Yourself? I'm kind of curious to know what that was actually like.
Sarah [00:22:04] Oh, gosh. You know, it was wonderful. It was like being a fly on the wall. The woman who started, it actually first started as an Instagram account. Jessica Siskin, her Instagram account was basically just showcasing all of these wonderful Rice Krispy treat creations and she's so creative and so talented. And because of my free labor with Nora, I got asked to work on this cookbook to help Jessica out. And given the creative nature of her work, you know, I didn't have quite the hands on role. Instead, it was me really supporting and watching an awesome creator at work. And so, I was sort of like a little sous chef or assistant to her, you know, making sure she had the right materials, the right candies, the right things. It's really fun to watch someone create a Van Gogh's Starry Night painting in Rice Krispies or a rocket ship or a bicycle all made out of Rice Krispy treats. It's kind of insane. So, I really just was, I think, her biggest cheerleader and kept the kitchen organized. There is a ton of candies’ and frostings and boxes of Rice Krispies. I did a lot of opening up of cereal boxes.
Madeline [00:23:35] I flipped through the pages and the one that was a pie. I was just like, I just wanted to eat it. Everything about that looks so good.
Sarah [00:23:42] Yeah, it was so cute.
Madeline [00:23:45] I want to shift gears and talk a little bit about turning down opportunities and figuring out, picking the opportunities that are right for you and not taking what might just look like shiny and good on paper. Can you tell us a little bit about some of the opportunities perhaps that you've turned down in your life to forge your own career path?
Sarah [00:24:09] Well, I would say opportunities that I've turned down have typically been because I felt undervalued in the offer. So, how does my coming off of the corporate ladder, if you will, and forging my own path in freelance writing and work was that I guess at some level I knew that when I was working and giving of my time and my energy expertise, I wanted to be compensated fairly for it. And so, if I ever said no to an opportunity, whether it was a writing opportunity or even something more interesting, like an editor opportunity that would have been wonderful on my resumé, I said no because I knew that the work that I would put out, may not get compensated and not just financially, but I would say the whole picture. Financially, emotionally, mentally. And so, usually that's what would help me say no. And then the other reality is, is that I would put it into very black and white terms, like, will I die if I just can't have this position or don't do this? And, if I didn't have that conviction, I felt very resistant to go for it.
Madeline [00:25:36] That's actually, that's a really good way to put it. I think a lot of women, when an opportunity comes at you and, you know, corporate or otherwise, it looks so lucrative or impressive on paper, but may not fit with your own version of success and feeling fulfilled. It's hard sometimes to walk away from it.
Sarah [00:25:59] Yeah. You know, part of that for me is I'm a mother of two. But, a lot of these decisions I was making when I was a mother of one child, not that that matters, but I share that because I also looked at my time really pragmatically, which is, if I'm going to take time away from my family and being an influence for my child, will that be OK? Will I be fed in this job or this professional opportunity? Will that tradeoff make sense? And so, it wasn't just about, you know, am I being compensated and appreciated for who I am individually? But it was also this bigger picture of will this serve my family? You know, because I actually really believe that it's hard to compartmentalize work and life, personal life that is and work and family. And I kind of all see it on the same plane. And as much as we might try to compartmentalize it, things leak into each other. And so rather than fighting the leakage, I just sort of let it all be out there and think to myself, is what I'm doing professionally, adding value to my family and vice versa? You know, is the way that I'm living in my life impacting my work well? And so, I just kind of let it all be out there all the time.
Madeline [00:27:25] I want to talk a little bit about your current career as a children's author. Can you describe for our listeners what books you're working on right now?
Sarah [00:27:34] Yeah, sure. You know, I have lots of different books I'm working on because I write right now for children about four to eight years old, picture books, you know, all those hardcover books with gorgeous pictures and a little bit of text. It's actually really hard to write succinctly, you know, to try to write a whole story with characters and plot in under five hundred words is really tough, actually. So, one book is about the fifth taste, Umami. So, everybody knows salty, bitter, sour, sweet as major human tastes. But there's a fifth taste, Umami, which is basically a savory taste and Umami is a Japanese word. And so, because of that, people often think of it as a Japanese or Asian flavor. But it's actually a universal flavor found all around the world, that savory flavor. So, that's everything from like parmesan cheese to ham and to truffles and Asian foods like soy sauce or dashi or shitake mushrooms and stuff. But, so that's a nonfiction book to sort of describe and explain the wonders of Umami. And then I wrote a fictional book about a friendship between two boys and a birthday tradition that's based in my own heritage, a Korean soup tradition where every year on your birthday you eat a soup, a seaweed soup. It's called birthday soup. And yeah, basically about two friends and some disappointment around birthdays and sort of helping each other through that. So, it's fun and very different. And a lot of my early books are about food given my passion for food and my background in food. But I'm also writing other books unrelated to food, you know, a book about a mother daughter relationship where they sew at night together. I really want to write a middle grade book, which is for older children about Asian-American identity and sort of what it's like to navigate a mostly white world. As an Asian-American, I'm writing a book, a bedtime book about Crescent Moon. So, I'm celebrating a lot of different things.
Madeline [00:29:53] And where, so where does your inspiration come? I mean, I know you've said a little bit, spoke about your heritage, but it's so interesting to me, how do you come up with topics that then relate to that particular age group?
Sarah [00:30:06] Yeah, you know, a lot of it is you do what you know, I guess, and what you're seeing every day. For creators, I think oftentimes these ideas come when you're not thinking about them. You know, and I get a lot of ideas when I'm washing the dishes and driving where I'm not activating my brain in like a really hard way, I or I'm observing my children or things out in the world. And actually, the middle grade book that I want to begin writing this summer or fall is, I would say a lot of it is based in my own childhood experiences and watching my now 11-year-old navigate school, too. There's a lot of, there's a lot that's changed in 30 years. But actually, a lot that hasn't. And so, a lot of my own experiences are coming up. And I'm thinking, wow, like, why, why haven't things changed in 30 years? You know, as far as being an Asian-American, what does that look like today? The universals between the two. Yeah.
Madeline [00:31:16] And so do you have a goal or sort of a mission with some of the books that you're writing with respect to being an Asian-American, sort of a message that you're trying to send to your children's audience?
[00:31:27] You know, there's probably a few goals. I think certainly I would love to see more diversity in books from a character and subject matter perspective. You know, when I, when my son was born, there were not a lot of books with Asian main characters. There's more and more now. The children's book world is really exciting because I think in a lot of ways it's ahead of the curve. And editors and publishing companies are looking for lots of lots of different stories. So, representation is huge for me. So, you know, not just for my child, but for other children from all different walks of life to see and gain access to Asian-American life and people, if you will. There is a famous scholar named Rudine Sims Bishop who sort of, I guess, originated this idea of children needing windows and mirrors. So, they need mirrors to see themselves, but windows to look into other worlds. And, yeah, I think I'm really trying to do that with my own work.
Madeline [00:32:39] That's a great way of phrasing it, windows and mirrors. How did you find an editor? So, for our listeners who are thinking about going into this world, obviously it's a competitive landscape. How did you find an editor? And what did that process look like?
Sarah [00:32:55] Do you mean for my books?
Madeline [00:32:56] Yes. For your books, yeah.
Sarah [00:32:56] So actually, I have yet to find an editor. And the editor can change book by book. But I have found an agent and so, maybe that's what you're talking about.
Madeline [00:33:07] Yes. Yeah, walk us through that process.
Sarah [00:33:08] Okay, well, publishing a book, you know, has always been quite a difficult field or I guess endeavor. And I put in the time, meaning I did a lot, a lot, a lot of writing. You have to write a lot I think, first of all. And just develop your craft as a writer, your voice, your niche even, your genre. Like what kind of book do you want to write? What's the audience? Do you want to write for adults, children, teens? It's all different. And I knew that I wanted to write for children. I wrote for several years. And I understood, I did my research. You know, I understood that if you want to publish a book in a traditional way that you needed to have an agent to sell your book on your behalf to all the major publishing companies, they don't take general submissions. So, basically, if you're not agented, they won't even really look at your work. Some smaller presses will, you can send it to an email and there will be a junior editor that goes through what we call the "slush pile" for your manuscript to get looked at. But you really need an agent and agents get pitched, you know thousands of times in a year, maybe more. I'm not sure of the exact numbers. So anyways, this sounds all really daunting, and frankly, it's not easy. But I think it all for me, again, it goes back to what do I know, what do I love, what am I trying to say? And getting very, very, very narrow and authentic about who I am and just sort of trusting that someone's going to see and get that. And then, of course, putting in the time. The hard work is never negotiable, you know.
Madeline [00:35:09] Is there anything that you wish you knew before going down this track, that might be helpful to our listeners who are considering a similar career path?
Sarah [00:35:19] Yeah, it takes years, or it can take years, you know, of course, there are some fabulous stories about people who win a Twitter pitch contest, get agented right away and sell their manuscript within six months. I think that's the rarity, not the norm. I think the norm is that it can take years to even write what you think might be a great manuscript. Then it could take years again to do your research on the industry and query agents to find the right agent for your work and yourself as an author. And then years again to sell a manuscript. My agent gave me some really great advice, which helped me be realistic about my timeline, which is out of 10 amazing book ideas you might have, one might actually be really good. And then of the manuscripts that you actually write, let's say 10, you'll write 10 manuscripts one might actually sell. So, just the odds of publishing today are really difficult. And it can take a really long time. I signed with my agent in January of 2019 and we're only kind of just now selling, you know. So, and selling, by the way, doesn't mean it's going to get bought. Right? So, it's a long road.
Madeline [00:36:54] I want to talk a little bit, I guess revisit a topic we discussed a little bit earlier, which is the juggle of being a working mom and how you balance both. I know you homeschool your children and then you're also working. You know, you've got a lot of things on your plate.
Sarah [00:37:09] Yeah.
Madeline [00:37:10] Tell us, what has been most helpful in dealing with the juggle of being a working mom?
Sarah [00:37:16] Well, I think I alluded to it earlier, which is I don't actually try to make them separate things and compartmentalize my work and my home life. For me, it's all kind of, again, on the same plane. And I move to them smoothly and organically. And I try not to think about how little time I have as well. You really have to live in the now and in the present to juggle a lot of things. There's an analogy or a metaphor about there being a stovetop. Let's say you've got four stove tops and yes, I'm sorry, you have one stove top, four burners. You've got all different pots cooking, right? On the stove top. And sometimes you've got to turn the fire up on one and turn the fire down on another. But they're all always kind of cooking and on. That's how I view my life as well is I've got several pots on the stove top, but some are turned up high and some are turned up low and its sort of always changing, what's cooking when. And I don't think too far beyond the present. Because then I'll get overwhelmed or resentful. And neither of those feelings help you in the juggle. You know.
Madeline [00:38:37] I love that analogy. And I guess that sort of walks right into my next question, which is, can you tell us a little bit about your mindset throughout your career that has helped you be successful?
Sarah [00:38:52] Well, I don't think about what other people are doing. I really try not to compare myself to other people. And yeah, I think the theme, even just in this interview, is staying true to yourself. What do you love? What do you know? What do you want to do? And don't worry about the person in the next lane, you know? And also, the expectation of difficulty instead of ease has really, really helped me. I just sort of assume that the things that I want, the things that are worth it in life, it could be a tough road to get there, but it will be well worth it at the same time.
Madeline [00:39:40] I love that. My father gave me some similar advice, I remember when I started out and he said, run your own race Madeline. And I really like that. It sort of seems like what you're saying, which is run your own race. Forget about people on the other lanes. What does your lane look like? And it's something I think that will really resonate with our listeners. I want to just touch briefly, do you have a career high that stands out in your mind, an accomplishment, whether it's big or small, that you're really proud of?
Sarah [00:40:09] You know, the truth is, is that I don't actually look back and celebrate very much. It's funny that question, I'm like well, I'm not there yet. That's sort of how I feel. You know, it's not to say that I haven't done really wonderful, cool things, but I just want more. And I look ahead, you know. Okay, that said, I am very proud of even securing an agent because it is very difficult to find an agent, you know, and to find one that I feel like I match so well to who truly respects me for who I am and the kind of work that I'm trying to do. And I think I am proud of that because I did it under pretty tough times and circumstances. When I moved to Houston from New York City in 2017, it was April of 2017, got settled into our rental house. We wanted to rent for a while before we kind of figured out where we wanted to settle. So, I spent that summer settling in. And then Hurricane Harvey, as we all know, came to Houston in August of 2017 and our house completely flooded. There was four feet of water in our house and we lost most of our belongings. And it was really scary. You know, we got rescued by boat and helicopter. I mean, it was kind of crazy and you know, I ended up still writing. I knew I wanted to write when I had no home and I was still writing from my parents' dining room, which is where we ended up moving to for a few months after Hurricane Harvey, because our home was not habitable. And so, you know, I was homeschooling my son, living with not a lot of belongings. Also, out of boxes, not knowing what the future held as far as where we were going to live. But still, I was writing and still I was trying to find a critique group here in Houston to make my work stronger. And yeah, I think I'm, if I'm proud of that, of getting the agent, it's actually maybe more that with all the challenges going on in my life, I was still pursuing my dream. And maybe that's what I'm proud of.
Madeline [00:42:39] That's, what a crazy story. You lost everything. Gosh, did you walk away? I mean, you must have walked away with some kind of incredible life lessons from that. I mean, just losing most of your belongings and you know, being uprooted and so disrupted. And it probably was, you know, just a feeling of gratitude to have what you do have.
Sarah [00:43:02] Yeah. I think, you know, it's so funny. I think as humans, we all maybe walk around with this low grade fear of the worst. Right? Like, something bad happening. Once something bad happens, then you kind of lose that fear, you know? And so, it was actually very liberating for both my husband and I as we kind of had what would be a worst of a situation happen to us. And we were alive, and we were OK. And we're like, OK, well, that's done. Let's just move on with a lot less fear in our lives, you know. So, it helped us shed a lot of fear and insecurity. I think I'm so much more clear about what I want to do, and I make no apologies for that because I'm really connected to the fact that we literally have one life and things could change tomorrow. So, do what you need to do today. You know, it does help me live a lot more presently and go for what I want without apology.
Madeline [00:44:07] That's great. So, in closing, we ask this to all of our guests, which is, can you give your best piece of advice for a listeners that they can apply to their own careers, specifically with respect to developing professional self-confidence?
Sarah [00:44:25] Well, there is a quote that I really like that I think is applicable, and it is that "courage is the presence of fear and going anyways." So, fear is always going to be present in whatever we're doing, whether it's work or relationships or parenting. We're not you know; you don't need to get rid of necessarily the fears and insecurities that are present in your life. It's being attuned to them and going anyways, I think, is what is helpful. And really, it's going to sound a little hokey, but loving and respecting yourself for who you are individually, not what is projected onto you, not what you think you should do. I think women speak in a lot of shoulds. I should do this. I should do that. No, I think we don't need to live in the shoulds. We just need to live and do what we feel is right and what we want. I mean, it sounds so novel to do what we want. I actually think we need to do what we want. And if we live in that way, we have more conviction about the decisions that we make, we become more responsible for those decisions. And when we take ownership of our lives, we will make things happen. If we live in the shoulds, there's a little bit of lack of ownership that can happen because your kind of pointing the finger elsewhere. Right? Like, well, I should do this, but, you know, they're really not considering my needs or, you know, these are old fashioned rules and that's all true. So, do what you want and take responsibility for the decisions that you make and the things that you love instead, you know, and live. authentically.
Becca [00:46:25] We hope you enjoyed our interview with Sarah. You can connect with Sarah at SarahKChoi.com. Thanks for tuning in. If you enjoyed our podcast hit subscribe and leave us a review. Thank you to Vettese for composing our original music. And thank you always to our home team of friends and family for supporting us in our mission. This episode was produced and edited by Madeline and Becca. Thanks for tuning in. And remember, you are somebody.