Mory Fontanez is a Purpose Coach and the founder and CEO of the 822 Group. Before founding her business, Mory had a successful career in corporate America, first in PR and marketing at an entertainment agency and then in a global agency where she managed crisis, strategy and change management programs for Fortune 50's. Mory noticed a widespread sense of frustration and lack of passion among colleagues and clients in the corporate world, particularly with respect to treating only the symptoms of these systematic problems and not getting to the core of the disease. Based on these experiences, Mory founded the 822 Group as a transformation consultancy. Mory has developed a distinct method to reconnect leaders with their higher purpose, creating vital and intuitive organizations that can successfully navigate turbulent times. Mory's work has been written up in Business Insider, Conscious Company, Doing (Good) Business, Kivo Daily and more. On today's episode, Mory will discuss the process of coaching executives, leading an organization during times of crisis and the importance of reconnecting with your true purpose. She will also break down female leadership myths and career roadblocks and highlight common traits among successful C-Suite executives.
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Episode #27: Instinctual leadership with Mory Fontanez
Mory [00:00:00] It's the meeting of your natural born gifts and talents and the things that genuinely bring you a sense of joy or fulfillment. And when those things meet, whether that be, you know, a game of basketball or it means that you go and create a foundation or it means that you start a beauty line, you are living in your purpose because you're in complete alignment with knowing yourself and knowing what your gifts and talents are and being able to wake up every day and feel good about what you're doing. That's purpose. And so, I genuinely believe that redefining purpose is the first step.
Madeline & Becca [00:00:46] Welcome to The Madeline and Becca podcast, the mission of our podcast is simple to inspire professional self-confidence in women everywhere. I'm Madeline. And I'm Becca. On our podcast, you will hear stories from real world influencers, women who have experienced tremendous success in their careers by building self-confidence. Thanks for joining us.
Becca [00:01:25] On today's episode, Madeline will be interviewing Mory Fontanaz, purpose coach and the founder and CEO of 822 Group. Before founding her business, Mory had a successful career in corporate America, first in PR and marketing at an entertainment agency and then in a global agency where she managed crisis, strategy and change management programs for Fortune 50's. Mory noticed a widespread sense of frustration and lack of passion among colleagues and clients in the corporate world, particularly with respect to treating only the symptoms of these systematic problems and not getting to the core of the disease. Based on these experiences, Mory founded the 822 Group as a transformation consultancy. Mory has developed a distinct method to reconnect leaders with their higher purpose, creating vital and intuitive organizations that can successfully navigate turbulent times. Mory's work has been written up in Business Insider, Conscious Company, Doing (Good) Business, Kivo Daily and more. On today's episode, Mory will discuss the process of coaching executives, leading an organization during times of crisis and the importance of reconnecting with your true purpose. She will also break down female leadership myths and career roadblocks and highlight common traits among successful C-Suite executives. Here's Madeline.
Madeline [00:02:57] So, tell us about 822 Group, what do you do and tell us also about the process of founding the business?
Mory [00:03:04] Absolutely. You know, I'll start with the process, which is that it was terrifying because I was coming from a really steady career that I had built up. When I left my agency, I was the global head of strategy and to leave something that stable at that time, I was a single mother of two little ones and go off and do something on my own was honestly felt like insanity. But this is why I call myself a purpose coach, because I feel like when your purpose is calling to you, there's literally nowhere you can hide. It's going to come and find you regardless and you know that started to happen for me where I just couldn't not do what I knew I was meant to do. So, I started it just by myself and then slowly started to bring on people that I trusted for my career to help me. And I got really lucky that people were open to hearing this new way of doing business that I had opportunities to talk to either past clients or new clients about, hey, what do you think about really looking at the internal issues first before a crisis happens and one opportunity after another turned into multiple and turned into word of mouth? But it really was about having faith that what I was saying was actually needed and valuable and that I was also needed and valuable. And so, 822 Group, 822 is my birthday. I wanted to start something that didn't have my name on it so others could feel like they're part of it but was attached to me. I also love numerology and eight-twenty two means infinite mastery. So, I thought that was apropos, given that's what we're trying to do for clients. And now we've really turned into this kind of parallel organization. Half of what I do is individual coaching, whether that's executive coaching or coaching individuals, influencers, celebrities, whatever it may be that feel stuck in wherever they're at, feeling like there's more and they're not able to get to it. Whatever challenges they're facing, I look at it through the lens of purpose. And how disconnected are you from that purpose? And then the other side of our business is the organizational consulting. So that's when we come in on a crisis or if there's a lack of alignment within the organization to, as I was saying, solve the problems that lead to bigger problems in the future.
Madeline [00:05:20] So, for our listeners, I think during this period of time, in 2020 with the pandemic, we've been hearing from a lot of people who are really feeling like they're reevaluating their careers and thinking about what is my purpose, am I in the right spot or do I want to make a shift? And Becca and I read your article that was featured in Business Insider, "Seven reasons that it's time to change jobs during the coronavirus pandemic," we will link that in our show notes too if people want to read it. Can you for listeners describe what suggestions do you have with respect to starting that process? First with evaluating, as you were saying, you know, when your purpose is calling to you, understanding and finding that purpose. And then the second part is how do you actually take action steps to make a change?
Mory [00:06:06] Yeah, I mean, I think it's really important to start with that definition of what is my purpose? I think we've been sold a myth that your purpose is some higher good that causes you to go off and live in the mountains as a monk or requires you to work at a nonprofit and give up the things that you love about your life. That's not the way I define purpose. Purpose in my definition is two things. It's the meeting of your natural born gifts and talents and the things that genuinely bring you a sense of joy or fulfillment. And when those things meet, whether that be, you know, a game of basketball or it means that you go and create a foundation or it means that you start a beauty line, you are living in your purpose because you're in complete alignment with knowing yourself and knowing what your gifts and talents are and being able to wake up every day and feel good about what you're doing. That's purpose. And so, I genuinely believe that redefining purpose is the first step, letting go of old narratives, that it has to be some godly thing that you're doing is really important. The second step then is to look at your present situation and ask yourself, first of all, do I feel a sense of fulfillment from what I'm doing? What I tell people in organizations that we consult with all the time is it's really important that the people who show up here and give the majority of their time to you. Right? We spend most of our time at work, feel aligned with the organization's purpose. And the only way that that's possible is if the organization does the work to figure out what the purpose is and each individual is encouraged to think that way, too. So that second step is really looking at your environment and asking yourself honestly, without being afraid of the answer. Do I feel fulfilled by this? I say without being afraid of the answer, because I think sometimes, we know deep down that the answer is I'm not fulfilled and we're afraid of what that means. Does that mean I have to let go of my career? Does that mean I'm going to be poor? Do I to lose my house? Right? We bring in all these fears that stop us from even being curious about what we're feeling. And then that third step, once you have that awareness, is OK, what are the things that I just have always been good at? What are the things I enjoy doing? Right? And looking at, is this opportunity allowing me to do that to my fullest extent, or are there other opportunities that will give me the chance to be fully in myself with my natural talents, you know, more consistently than I am right now?
Madeline [00:08:46] I love that and in terms of finding those opportunities, how for our listeners who are trying to decide jeez what is out there, I mean, the topography has shifted so much in the last six months. What suggestions do you have?
Mory [00:09:06] Well, I think you have to be open minded. I think that we set out on our lives, whether it be our career or our family life, that we want to build and we create a plan and a roadmap. And I don't want to speak for all women. But in my experience, women do this a lot. Right? And I've done this where it was this is the way it's going to be, and this is what success is going to look like. And we build a box for ourselves. And so, when you're living inside that box, you can't see the other ways that you might be able to enjoy and feel fulfilled and do the things that you do. So, I really believe it's about being open minded about other industries, other partners, other opportunities, and in my case, doing it on your own. Right? If there's a fear around doing something on your own, investigate it. If there's a fear, then you need to investigate what that is. So, I think talking to others and being open minded about what their experiences are, what happens in other industries, you know, making a career change is frightening, but it doesn't always mean you have to go back to zero. Here's another myth. We believe that if we're going to a middle of our lives, make a career change, you've got to rewind and go back to square step one. That's not true. That's not true because life experience and experience in one industry could very easily apply to another. And so that's another roadblock that we put up.
Madeline [00:10:28] One of the things that you mentioned was living out of abundance and not out of fear. Can you tell us that really struck a chord with me? I feel like we've heard that a lot with our listeners, and I feel like I felt that. What does that mean and how do you go about actually doing that?
Mory [00:10:45] Yeah, it's really this dichotomy of scarcity or abundance. Scarcity just being this notion that there's not enough to go around, there's not enough opportunity, there's not enough wealth, while only the people that look like X, Y, Z get to go start their own business while she naturally likes beauty. So, she, of course, is going to start a beauty line. It's all of these things that we tell ourselves that say, not enough. This is not enough. I'm not enough. Abundance is almost like you're jumping off a cliff with full faith that that parachute is going to go off. Really understanding that the truth of the way that things work is that there is plenty to go around and that, in fact, we when we have an idea when you hear that word manifestation, yes, it's a spiritual concept, but it's a real concept around when you have an idea, you've already made that idea a possibility. That's all you needed was to have the idea. And then the next step and the next step makes it probable. That's what manifestation is. So, abundance is understanding, you are creating your opportunities. You are creating your reality. And the only thing that holds us back is staying in the camp of scarcity is ascribing to the notion that there is not enough. And because there is not enough, I will not be able to then have what I want to have and therefore I won't try.
Madeline [00:12:09] And in terms of women who want like you to be an entrepreneur and start their own business, what, can you give advice for what worked when you were in that place where you had decided to start a business, you were going to take the leap, you were operating from that place of abundance. What did you actually do? Like what advice would you give to women who want to take that step?
Mory [00:12:35] Yeah, I had to get really uncomfortable. I had to think about the things that make me very uncomfortable and lean into them. So, for example, I don't like pitching or selling. I just don't. I'm a strategist. I'm a coach. I can fix your problem. But to come and tell you that here I am, I can fix your problem really made me uncomfortable. And I had to lean into that. There was lessons in that for me, first of all. But I think that really being, again, aware of what is it that I'm most frightened of, what is it that I'm most uncomfortable with, and then really taking away all of the monsters that you attach to it and just taking one baby step at a time. For me, it was I'm not going to pick up the phone and cold call someone, but I'll email them. Right? And then it was the next lesson was rejection. That was a horrible, that's a horrible feeling for all of us. So, when I come up with something that is my idea that is coming from a place of vulnerability because it's mine and I put it out there and people don't respond to it, it's very easy to go back in your shell and be like, never mind, it wasn't good anyway. But the truth is, and I'm a history nerd, the truth is, if you look back at the greatest masters of our time, they didn't just try once or twice. They tried one-hundred, two-hundred times. Right? There are people that we lawed, like Einstein that were thought to be crazy for a very long time, for a very long time. And now our hindsight is 20/20. And we can look at those people and think that they're legends. But they didn't have the experience of being a legend every day. They had the experience of being this flawed human that tried, failed and kept on going. So that was the second lesson for me is do not let the rejection be a definition of your value. Just because someone doesn't want it or get it in that moment does not mean that you're not valuable. It means you just have to keep going until you find the group that can kind of see you at that frequency. And then I think lastly for me, it's been about waking up every day and asking myself, do I love what I'm doing right now? Is this really something that I am willing to dedicate my life to? And the answer has been no sometimes. And when the answer was no, I had to change things. I had to stop doing certain things. When we first launched the agency, I had come from a twenty year career as a marketer and a crisis manager. So, part of what we were selling was brand strategy and marketing. And you know what? I started to do those things for clients. And I was like, I don't want to do this. This isn't what I want to do. I want to coach the executive. I want to get in and look at the crisis and the chaos. I don't want to write your marketing strategy. Just because I'm good at it doesn't mean it's something that I want. And we had to pivot what the brand of 822 Group stood for. And that in itself can be scary to.
Madeline [00:15:30] So in terms of coaching some of your executives, I'm really interested to hear about that process, and you know what you might walk through, particularly in this year, right, where there are so many challenges that executives are facing and how to lead an organization and how to stay connected with people and how to support people who are facing all the challenges they're facing, both at work and at home and life. Tell us about some of that process and how you're leading specifically business, female business leaders through this year.
Mory [00:16:06] Yeah, you know, first of all, I'll talk about my methodology for coaching executives, and I have something really specific about female business leaders that I think is helpful. In terms of just executive coaching, my approach is a little bit more intuitive than I think I've found with other executive coaches. First of all, my desire is that my client who's being coached, feels like they're on the phone with an adviser who is there to truly without judgment listen, first of all. Secondly, I don't have a neatly packaged structure that I give everyone, that is like here are the seven steps you need to hit to be a powerful executive. Absolutely not. That's why when I say intuitive, what I mean is, I really try to connect to that person and help them understand, what are my natural gifts that I have shied away from that I'm not leaning into. How are ways that I'm allowing other people's perception or my need for their validation to hold me back as a leader. What are some of the things that I'm doing that are coming from triggers or insecurity or anxiety that are not helpful to my team or this organization? So, for me, it's really about guiding them on this internal excavation that then outwardly shows a shift. It's not about teaching them a dogma that I created that I'm applying to everybody. So that's the executive coaching piece as a whole. In terms of females in leadership, I think the element that I add to that is what are the ways that society told you couldn't be the way you are when you're leading? And I know that because I coach females, but I know that because I am a female who existed in corporate America for a very long time and continues to do so. And so, I really think it's important that we start having honest conversations about the way we hold ourselves back, about the way we don't mention our children sometimes, or we feel badly if we have to get on a meeting at 8:00 p.m. when our children need us or whatever it might be, our instinct is to do something one way, but we feel like because we're a woman, we have to hold back and do it another way. So, we just launched this week our Executive Women's Forum, which is our first go at, you know what? This doesn't have to be one on one coaching with me. Let's get a group of us together. And we're calling it Reclaim Your Instinctual Leadership. And it's a six month program where we're going to talk about what does it mean to actually tune into your instincts and be able to move with those instincts? And what are all of the barriers, honestly, that are in your way that stop you from doing it? And how can we push through them? So, it is about coaching as a group, but it's also about building this community of female executives that can have honest conversations with each other. And together we can shift the paradigm so that when you go off and do it in your world, you have a community to come back to and say that blew up in my face or that worked. And let's continue to talk it through.
Madeline [00:18:57] That's so important and you're speaking a lot to some of the things that we've heard again and again on our podcast, over and over again, about what it means to be a woman leader, also to be supported by a community of other women and how they've faced certain challenges, how they've overcome certain challenges, strategies that have worked, what hasn't worked, and also the ability to be a human. I think sometimes, I think that gets erased. And I think women sometimes look at male executives who have made it and say, I've got to follow that mold.
Mory [00:19:30] Absolutely.
Madeline [00:19:30] That is not necessarily what's going to work for them. And I think that leads us into what I want to talk about next, which is, Becca and I watched your segment on Great Day, Washington, where you highlighted why women need to lean into their natural strengths. Can you speak to what those are and why is it advantageous to lean into them?
Mory [00:19:49] Yeah, you know, I say this all the time. I think that there is yet another myth that women are overly emotional. And so, we feel like we have to hide our emotions in the place of work and business. And the truth that I want female and non-binary leaders to understand is men are very emotional and they're very comfortable showing their emotions. Look at our government right now, right? If the emotion is not sadness, it doesn't mean it's not an emotion. If there's anger, that's an emotion. If there's excitement, that's an emotion. I think our natural strength as female leaders is that we've learned how to integrate them into moving forward. We don't stop and sit in that emotion we've learned because we're trying so hard to prove that we're not emotional how to experience the emotion and still have momentum and productivity at the same time. So that's the first strength I think that we need to bring to the table. The second is we are instinctual beings. We are in touch with our gut in a way that if you take a self-defense class, they will tell you women, the number one thing we do that puts us in danger is we ignore our instincts. So, getting back in touch with that gut feeling, if you go sit down in a meeting and you are about to say something and you feel like, oh, I just know that this person is going to throw this off, get in touch with that feeling and redirect what you're about to say in a way that is more honest, more direct. Right? Don't let people gaslight you because you're not able to just say what you mean, really understand where that feeling is coming from and move with it. We're able to read people quickly. We're able to come from a place of knowing that you know maybe won't feel logical. Maybe it's not data led, but we don't lean into it. We don't say, you know what, my gut's telling me this is just not the right move to make right now. And then the third one is don't ascribe to any notion of what being a female leader is. I think the other thing I see with some of the amazing women that I've coached is, you know, they feel like they have to be nurturing because they're a woman. They feel like their teams expect them, oh, I didn't get that nurturing response from you that I thought. Well, why should you if that's not who I am, if who I am is nurturing, that's what you're going to get. If who I am is someone that is thinking very linearly and wants to get from point A to point B, that's what you're going to get. And being able to just show up as who you are and not try to manage other people's feelings about it, gets rid of so much energy and baggage that we carry with ourselves that you are able to actually do more and you inspire people more because you're coming from that seat of power rather than taking care of everybody else.
Madeline [00:22:37] And as a female leader within an organization, what would you advise in terms of developing some of those characteristics? I know you've been speaking to it a little bit here about if you're in a position of leadership and you want people down the chain to feel comfortable, to be able to bring what they have to the table to be, what would you advise in terms of helping a culture of an organization embrace some of those strengths that you've been talking about?
Mory [00:23:02] Talk about it. That's always been my weapon or tool, weapon is the wrong word. I will call it out immediately. And I didn't always make friends with my male counterparts, but I'd be in situations where I was the only executive leader in a group of five other executive leaders that was a female, a female of color. And they would, you know, an opportunity would come up and they'd give it to the other guy and then another opportunity would come up. And I would literally in that meeting say, I just want to point out that I've been sitting here for 30 minutes and not once was I asked about my opinion or given a chance at that opportunity. Can we talk about what that's about? It's not an accusation, it's this is my experience. Let's talk about it or if I'm being talked over in a meeting, I really will point that out. I will let them do it. And then I'll say, OK, this has now been the third time that I've been speaking, and I've been interrupted. So, do you want to tell me what that's about? You always need to call it out. And then the second thing is, don't make it about you. Ask them. Be curious. What's going on here? Why is this happening? Because that then allows people to either go and self-reflect and make a shift that's necessary or speak up in a way that's going to be healthy to the organization moving forward. But I think we witness things or experience things or are treated a certain way where we just shut up about it too much. You don't have to be in people's face. You don't have to be yelling and screaming. It can be very what I call emotionally neutral. This just happened. Why did it happen?
Madeline [00:24:36] It's a really good point, because one of the issues that we've discussed quite a bit is how to deal with challenging people in the workplace. I think some, we've had people who have had very narcissistic bosses and sometimes it's extremely and who are perhaps very senior to them and they want to learn from them. They're a good skill sets they can learn, but it can be toxic to deal with them. So besides calling it out in an emotionally neutral way, do you have any other advice for navigating office politics?
[00:25:11] Yeah, I mean, I understand that concept of working for and being around narcissists, and I think that's just a part of the dynamic that is being human. The first thing I'll tell you about working with a narcissist is they always want to make it about them, but they do it by making it about you. And they make you feel like if something went wrong, that's your fault, they make you feel like if you're bringing something up that makes them uncomfortable, you should feel bad about that. And so, the first thing to think about there is, is this mine or is this yours? Right? It's a volley. If you're about to tell me I did something, don't just accept it, especially if you know you're working with someone toxic. Don't let them convince you that you made that situation more uncomfortable or you made that situation worse. Number two, I think we get really wrapped up in our own narrative of drama. Right? I used to when I worked in an agency and had a team of one hundred people that I led, I had a really strong boundaries around. I'm leaving here at four thirty because I need to go get to my children or whatever it is, which means that when I'm here from nine to four-thirty, I am focused on the job I'm doing. I'm not sitting with you and chit chatting and I also honestly don't care what that makes me look like because I'm actually a very loving person. And if you get to know me, you'll know that. Right? But I'm not going to get dragged into the conversation about that toxic person or putting all my energy around, oh, what do we do about this person? Nope. I'm here to do a job. I'm going to do my job. The minute that toxic person stops me from doing my job, again it's about letting them know that and then releasing your expectation of what they will say or do. This is where we get stuck. It's like if we go and tell somebody we need you, you know, this is my experience and it's stopping me from doing my job, we expect a "oh, you're right. I'm so sorry." You're not going to get that. So, release yourself of the need for that stamp. Say what you need to say. Show up and do your job. If you're in an environment that's so toxic that you cannot do your job, why are you there? The only way that toxic narcissists learn that the way they're doing it is not going to work is by people saying no more, no thank you. And this is where scarcity and abundance comes in. This is where narcissists use that dynamic beautifully because they want to elicit in you a fear that if you do stand up for yourself, you will lose this job and there will not be another. Let me tell you something. I have never experienced somebody leaving a job and not finding something better in that situation. Not once. That's just the scarcity mindset that we get tricked into believing.
Madeline [00:28:04] And do you have any advice for where the delineation point is in terms of making that, OK, the workplace or the person I'm working with is too toxic and I need to make a change versus trying to stay there and get what you get out of the job until you decide you want to make a change?
Mory [00:28:22] I love that question because it's about accountability. And sometimes I think that when I say the things I say, people think that they then don't have to be accountable. And that is not what I'm saying. So, thank you for asking it. I think that the boundary between those two things is, again, if you feel that you are clear on your job, if you feel that you are doing everything you can do to focus on that job and not add to the toxicity and not add to the chaos. And if you have come to a place of emotional neutrality, which means you're not making everything about you, you are understanding that the person across from you that's acting the way they're acting is about their own noise. That is their own hurricane. Right? If you stop yourself from being dragged into their hurricane and yet it is still toxic, it is still you are still unable to move forward. A lack of momentum is insanity if you're sitting in that lack of momentum because that other person just truly will not allow you to make progress and you have tried and you're accountable to your role, then that's not the right place for you. But checking off that list is a lot harder than you think. It takes a lot of self-awareness and in a lot of the examples that I can think of the other person who has fell victim to the toxicity has actually been contributing to the toxicity. And that realization has been the weight that was able to be lifted off their shoulders so they could move forward or in some instances, they've changed the culture just by changing themselves.
Madeline [00:29:58] And to sort of dovetail and I guess circle back on something you said in terms of being a mother, we have a lot of mothers, a lot of professional mothers who are trying to navigate how do I set those boundaries? Like you said, I left at four-thirty because I want to unapologetically you know, you were where you were at work and then you were where you were at home. What advice would you have or suggestions for our listeners who are trying to navigate having both a high performing career and also the challenges and desire to have children and a family?
Mory [00:30:32] You know, I think you have to understand that it doesn't have to be a tradeoff. Again, myth number five and by the way, all these myths are created by power structures that need us to fall in line so that they can keep being powerful. So, if you put that aside, this myth that we can't do both things and talk about both things in both places is ridiculous. I don't go home and just be a mom. My kids know exactly what I do. My son, the other day, we were playing basketball outside, he's 10 years old. He's like, "hah mom isn't it funny? All you talk about is purpose and intuition." And I was like, wow, you know that because I tell you that. So, you know, and he was making fun of me, of course. But you're not just a mom either. You are this whole person at home. How come the dad gets to come home and be a lawyer at home and talk about, you know what I mean? Like, we silow ourselves and compartmental ourselves in a way that's not human. So, there's that part of it. And I think the same goes for being at work. Listen, just because I have to leave at four-thirty sometimes or every day or because my child needs me in that moment does not mean that I'm not providing value. And it doesn't mean that when I am there, you don't need me, you need me. The value I'm bringing to you in that seven, eight hours is invaluable. And if I can't be there, it's OK. I will come back, and I will provide that value again. But I have to know that I bring that value with me. Every time we think we're replaceable, we give in to this notion that we have to pick. But you're not, because as an individual, this goes back to your purpose. You have innate skills and talents that the other person does not have. And that is why you're in that role. And if that's not why you're in that role, then you're not working at your purpose. And if you are asked to excuse yourself from that role, thank the universe, because that's a gift.
Madeline [00:32:30] So for that individual, going back to what you said about accountability, do you have any suggestions about how to set those boundaries or about how to I guess assert yourself as a human being in that role.
Mory [00:32:46] Yeah, we do this training on managing chaos, which we're doing a lot these days for organizations, and we have a list of how you invite in negative experiences personally. And on that list, I've listed things like venting, gossip, not going to the person directly, not embracing no, right? Martyrdom, feeling like I'm going to save the day by doing all of these things. There's a lot of little things that we do that contribute to not being accountable. I'll get into the gossip and venting very quickly. It's very human to want to blow off steam and talk about the situation you're in. But what I tell the people I train is you're only allowed to do that if you promise me you go and tell the person directly what the problem was. But we don't want to do that. We want to continue to talk about the other person and how horrible they are, how bad the situation is and not actually fix it. That's not accountable. Accountability is for me to come to you and say, Madeline, I really didn't appreciate the way you spoke to me, because the way that it came across is that you didn't value my role here. And when you do that, I then can't show up and give you all that I have because I don't feel appreciated. And then I can go tell my husband, you know what? I was really mad at Madeline, but we talked about it and I let her know where I stand and we are where we are, like, I've let that out that release valve by talking to you. I don't need to go spend and waste time. You know, I think it adds to toxic work culture. We do a lot of culture work when people gossip and vent. And what I like to do is replace that with something that's more positive. What's a more positive way that you can experience your time there than bonding over venting about the person you hate?
Madeline [00:34:28] And if you're a leader within that organization, what can you do to facilitate that openness and that dialog with people who may report to you to have those conversations and to be able to be open to say, listen, if you have something, let's talk about it?
Mory [00:34:43] You know, I coach a lot of CEOs, and I'm usually the one that has to tell them, hey, you don't make it that easy to give you feedback. So, I think that it's really important if you want that kind of environment that you practice getting feedback without reacting. And this is where the purpose executive coaching comes from, because if I can help you let go of your triggers and your old stories, when someone's giving you feedback, you're reacting from the present, not from some old story or hurt teenager or angry child. You're literally able to just hear it and be like, OK, right? But I think that a lot of leaders need to practice getting feedback so that they're not just saying this is an open environment and the employees are hearing yeah, but if I tell you what I think you're going to lose it. That's not a trustworthy situation. If you can cultivate an environment of respectful feedback and being able to take it, but not internalize it and make it about, you know, they hate me. Right? And you can embody that, then you can start to say, OK, we're going to talk about things openly. I used to host meetings with my teams, again, 90 plus people where everyone would sit and I'd say, hey, this thing just happened this week. I know half of you are aware. Let's talk about it. This is where I was coming from. This is where, you know, this is what happened with the client. And we just had an open dialog. Was it uncomfortable? Maybe for some people, but we were really open. There was never a question about what went on. And so, what that does is it creates a trusting environment where, you know what? She's going to address it eventually. And I then have faith in her and I can now go off and do my job because I know she's got it and she's going to be honest with us.
Madeline [00:36:22] That's really great advice and I do think we've heard a lot. We interviewed one woman on our podcast who's an executive in the HR world, and she was talking about the old HR versus the new HR, you know, and some of these cultural issues where sometimes people at the top are just not aware that they are bringing in those trigger points and reacting to something else.
Mory [00:36:43] Every time, every time. I wish people would believe me when I said, if you, if you're a leader and people don't trust you, I promise it's coming from your internal triggers every time.
Madeline [00:36:55] I want to shift and talk a little bit about what I think is an interesting topic, which is how to turn a career mistake into an opportunity. I think it's something that's come up. And I know you have experience probably coaching people with this. Can you speak to that a little bit? I think sometimes people think I've made a mistake. Where do I go from here?
Mory [00:37:20] Well, you have to take your beat up, stick away around mistake, I don't ascribe really to that word because again, if you believe that your life is about a path towards your Y or your purpose, then there's really no accidents or mistakes. And so, I teach this to my children all the way to the organizations I work with, to the individuals I work with, is if something went wrong or awry, your judgment that it was wrong is the problem. The truth is that thing had to happen. And what we focus on is what did you learn from it? What did you take away from it? How have you evolved as a person because of it? Right? And if it weren't there, where would you be right now? Like, how much further back would be? That's failure to me is not growing and evolving. So, I think we've got to change our relationship with mistake. I think the second thing is sometimes when we're in a situation that's not working for us is what I'll call a mistake, we stay, and we do it again because of that scarcity or abundance thing. But facing it and being aware of, you know, this goes for relationships, too, by the way. Hey, this is not serving me any longer. That facing that is hard work. And you have to be aware of it so that you can then make a change. And then I think the third thing is, OK, let's add them together. I'm going to make a change because I faced it and I'm going to figure out what I learned from being in this situation. What do I now want? Why are we so afraid to just speak what we want? This is what I want. This is what I need. And when you start to speak that way, what I say is you raise your frequency, your frequency goes up, and then the people and the opportunities that are at that frequency can find you, they can hear you. But when you're trapped down here doing it because you're being a martyr or you're scared that there is no other opportunity, which, by the way, no judgment. We've all been there. But when you're there, you're, they can't see you. You haven't raised your frequency.
Madeline [00:39:20] I think this will, this ties nicely into what is our last segment on self-confidence. It's one of the things that we really focus on in this podcast, which is how to be professionally self-confident and own your voice, be accountable for your voice, exercise your voice, support other people in their voices. Can you tell us both in your experience, perhaps coaching people or your own career? What are some of your best tips for developing professional self-confidence?
Mory [00:39:56] Celebrate your wins. I think we try to fast forward past those moments too much. You know, when you achieve something, enjoy it. Stop and smell the roses. Really like think about how did I do that? "Wow. I did that." And celebrate that. That adds to your notion of yourself. Self-confidence is all about the way we view ourselves. Number one. Number two, I say this to a lot of people and I, this is where I get them. You know, they'll tell me about something they did and then, I'm go OK, what do you think about yourself in them? List all these things and then I'll say, do you have a child, give a niece or a nephew? Yup. OK, how would you feel if someone were talking to them that way? Well, that would be absolutely unacceptable. Oh, but it's acceptable for you? So, take yourself out of yourself for a moment when you've got your beat up stick and just ask yourself, is that like, wow, is that really necessary? All of those attributes I just listed that were so negative for one thing that didn't work. How would I feel if someone did that to my child, my partner, my niece, my nephew? Whatever it is? I think imagining it as a child is so important because you have this sense of needing to protect that being, you've got to protect this being. You're the only one that's going to do it. So, treat yourself with the same compassion you would for someone that you felt needed you in that way. You need you in that way. So, don't make your mistakes define you and really celebrate how you have succeeded. And then lastly, and this one makes me very uncomfortable, but promote yourself. You know, talk about, you don't have to brag, but you can you know, you're listening the way I'm telling you right now, and this is a different platform you're asking me, but I'll say, in my years of coaching CEOs, well I've just told you, I've had years of coaching CEOs. I own that. That's a success for me. Right? So, you don't have to brag. I'm the best at coaching CEOs. No, it's just this is a truth about what I've accomplished, and you need to get comfortable speaking about it.
Madeline [00:42:03] And congratulations on your success, it's a good thing, it's a wonderful thing. I'm curious, are there some of the things that you see in terms of a pattern within all of those incredibly successful women that you have coached and interacted with through the years? Some of the traits that our listeners can aspire to or work on patterns of things that have really worked for those people who have gone to the highest levels.
Mory [00:42:34] Yeah, I mean, I think there are a few that come to mind. One is such a strong notion in what they are bringing to the table, that it's like an immovable force. It's just so clear. This is my role, and this is how I'm contributing to the greater good of this brand or this team. And I know it. Like I have clients that I've worked with like that, where you're just like, yep, she knows. And because she knows everybody else around her treats her that way. The second is not constantly entering the corporate world with this notion that they're behind some way. It's like, OK, maybe in some instances I am and maybe in some instances I won't. But that's not the glasses they're wearing. That's not the frame through which they're looking at things. They're not thinking, well, because I'm a female, I'm going to have to hold myself back. It's like they go in there with the perception of equality and sometimes it actually creates equality because they're like, I'm not going to buy into that story. And I think that's really important. And then the third one is just really embracing who they are. I mean, I have worked with female clients where they are one hundred percent, no B.S. and there is no nurturing your feelings. And as somebody who's a nurturer, I had judgment about that. I was like, what? Why is it so much harder to work with for woman than it is for this man? But they were not apologetic about it. Now, if it goes into toxicity, we're talking about something else, right? If they're putting it on me and making me feel bad, that's a whole different story. That's about them being a human and having triggers. But it's just who they are is someone that doesn't ascribe to constantly nurturing everyone, which is honestly about having excellent boundaries. They don't apologize for it.
Madeline [00:44:26] Yeah, it's fascinating to hear that, and I, and I love it, it's that's the person that's who they are as a human being.
Mory [00:44:31] Yeah. And why should you be sorry? It's like I think we tune in sometimes so much to other people's experiences that we forget to just look at things through our own lens as women. I think, honestly, men don't have that problem half the time. Right. I think sometimes it's reverse, but I think as women it's like, oh, how do you feel about what I just did? What are they going to feel when they walk away from here? What, you know it's all about the experience we gave them. And if the expense we gave them was not one of comfort, we sometimes have to feel like we have to apologize for that. But here's the thing, the way they interpret their interaction with you is about them. It's not about you.
Becca [00:45:21] We hope you enjoyed our interview with Mory, her Executive Women's Forum is launching January 14th, 2021, you can connect with Mory and learn more about her services at 822Group.com. Be sure to follow her on Instagram @822Group. Thanks for tuning in. If you enjoyed our podcast, hit subscribe and leave us a review. Thank you always to our home team of friends and family for supporting us in our mission. This episode was produced and edited by Madeline and Becca. Thanks for tuning in. And remember, you are somebody.