What is it like to command a mission to Mars? What is it like to parent from space? What is it like to be an astronaut floating in zero gravity and reaching planets never before touched by humankind? The number one Netflix series Away, tackles these questions with Hilary Swank as commander, Emma Green, who leads an international mission to Mars. The series is a balance of space exploration and human drama. Our guest today, Jessica Goldberg, is at the helm of this mission as the showrunner and executive producer. Jessica will describe Away and her vision for bringing the first manned mission to Mars. We will learn about the overview effect and why boundaries disappear from the vantage point of outer space. Jessica will discuss why Hilary Swank was the perfect choice to play Commander Emma Green, a powerful leader who is also deeply human. She will also explain why it was important to her to tell the story of being a working mother.
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Episode #20: Away: A Mission to Mars with Jessica Goldberg
Jessica [00:00:00] We got more than we could have hoped for, in part just from casting Hilary like I, I try now to, I can't really imagine anybody else bringing as much in that she is so deeply human. She, I love, you know, like for so long working women have been portrayed in certain like, high heel clicking down the, with their briefcase, kind of cool, cold, you know, sleeping with lots of people way. And this is the most powerful woman I've ever met. And she listens to her kid and she is invested in her marriage and she can cry sometimes. And yet when, you know, when push comes to shove and she has to be the commander, she is the commander. So, you know, we, we tried to write that as best as we could, but I just feel like Hilary brought that. That's who she is. You know, that's, that's what she brought.
Madeline & Becca [00:00:59] Welcome to The Madeline and Becca Podcast. The mission of our podcast is simple, to inspire professional self-confidence in women everywhere. I'm Madeline. And I'm Becca. On our podcast, you will hear stories from real world influencers, women who have experienced tremendous success in their careers by building self-confidence. Thanks for joining us.
Becca [00:01:39] What is it like to command a mission to Mars? What is it like to parent from space? What is it like to be an astronaut floating in zero gravity and reaching planets never before touched by humankind? The number one Netflix series Away, tackles these questions with Hilary Swank as commander, Emma Green, who leads an international mission to Mars. The series is a balance of space exploration and human drama. Our guest today, Jessica Goldberg, is at the helm of this mission as the showrunner and executive producer. Jessica grew up in a small town in upstate New York and always wanted to be a writer. She fell in love with language, character and the world of theatre. She graduated from the dramatic writing program at NYU. While at Juilliard, she won the prestigious Susan Smith Blackburn Prize, which is awarded annually to an English language woman playwright. Jessica moved to L.A. and submitted many works to her agent before getting a start in film. She's the creator of the Hulu series The Path and also wrote and produced the NBC series Parenthood, among many others. On today's episode, Jessica will describe Away and her vision for bringing the first manned mission to Mars. We will learn about the overview effect and why boundaries disappear from the vantage point of outer space. Jessica will discuss why Hilary Swank was the perfect choice to play commander Emma Green, a powerful leader who is also deeply human. She will also explain why it was important to her to tell the story of being a working mother. Here's Madeline.
Madeline [00:03:33] How from your playwright start and through Juilliard, how did you end up transitioning into film? What prompted it? And how did you make the leap?
Jessica [00:03:42] So, I had always loved movies. And, you know, I worked at a video store in high school. I worked at our little movie theater in Woodstock called the Tinker Street Cinema. Watched, you know, we got all kinds of art films Spike Lee and then Wim Wenders. And you know, really studied these movies, had that dream in my head. And like most stories, it began with a boy. I met a guy and he was an actor. And we moved to L.A. and I found myself here going like, okay, there's like two theaters. Like, what am I going to, what am I going to do? And I was like, well, maybe I'll start this movie writing thing. So, I kept trying to write a movie, and I did it very, very badly for many, many tries. I had this agent from being a playwright, and I kept giving him the movies and he kept saying no. And I would be like, he hates me. He doesn't get me. But the truth was, he was really protecting me for when I really wrote the right thing. And it was for me, I think it was figuring out how I could still be myself and have my own voice and tell the stories that were important to me and write in the right formula, so I couldn't marry those two. It took a long time to marry those two things. I kept trying to write what I thought was a movie or would be popular instead of writing what I wrote about and figuring out how to put that in the three act structure of a screenplay. So, I remember it very clearly when I finally figured that out. And my agent called, and he was like, this is it. This is the one. And he started sending it out. And then I started to work that, that movie never got made. But I started to, people would say, like, we have this book and we're looking for a writer. So, I started to get a few jobs in film and writing films.
Madeline [00:05:48] So, tell us about your creative writing style and how you draw inspiration.
Jessica [00:05:54] Yeah, I'm definitely a writer that's like, you know, I as a young playwright, it was like all about my angst. It was about the world I saw around me. It was about stuff that made me upset, feelings that were complicated. So, in the end, I think to this day, you know, that is my writing style. It is very personal. It's very raw. It's very much about what I see out the window. You know, what I'm feeling in my body. You know, that is, it's all, it's really personal. To this day, I do like a little prompt writing workshop where I just, like, write from my gut. You know, I've always been that kind of writer. And it's interesting how you can apply that even to like a TV show that you're working on. You know, you sort of go like, OK, what is this character really feeling right now? So, everything for me starts from that place.
Madeline [00:06:58] So we want to focus in and on the series Away, because it's just it's, Becca and I, you know, we watched it this summer and we were just mesmerized by it and the characters. And it was just such an incredibly optimistic chapter, I think, for many, many people across the world. And so, can you start by just telling our listeners who have not yet watched it, just a brief synopsis of the plot. What is it?
Jessica [00:07:29] Yes. So, Away is about the world comes together and makes an international mission to Mars. Hilary Swank, Emma is the commander of the ship. There is a Russian astronaut, an Indian astronaut, a Ghanaian British astronaut and a Chinese astronaut. And together, this is the first crew that will ever go to Mars. And it's about this journey. And then the people they leave behind at home. These tethers to earth. So, their families. Those stories. And you go back and forth between the earth and the mission and it's all done realistically. No aliens that you know, the sci fi is not really sci fi, only in that we've never been to Mars. And obviously, the ship goes further than man has gone before, before.
Madeline [00:08:19] So, tell us about what your role is in the series and how you got involved.
Jessica [00:08:23] So, I'm the showrunner of the show and I wrote a couple episodes last season, but I don't know if you guys are familiar with what a showrunner does. They sort of like oversee the whole project. So, it was created by this wonderful writer, Andrew Hinderaker, who had written with me on The Path and who had written for Jason Katims, our executive producer, on another show. And he had written this beautiful script. And they needed somebody to come on and sort of oversee this whole project. And I read it and I was like, you know. And this was like a year ago. I was like, the world is going crazy. Like, let me be in something hopeful. And let me be in something positive, like let me spend a year here. Yes. So, I raised my hands, said please take me.
Madeline [00:09:17] So, let's start by talking, I think for our listeners, everybody's always so curious about the casting process and you have such an incredible, incredible female lead. Hilary Swank, Emma, who plays Emma on the show, she's in, you know, my perspective, she's just incredibly fierce. But also, so relatable all at once. So, can you tell us about the casting process and how you picked the right actors and actresses for the roles?
Jessica [00:09:47] I'm so glad you see that, because I just I feel that way, too. I feel so lucky. But, you know, we really sat down when we had a few episodes and we said, you know, you get your list of actresses. And we were like, this show has to feel real. Like I want to see a woman who could have a 15 year old child and who I believe, you know, has been through astronaut training program, who is brilliant, you know, mathematically and also has the physical strength to do this journey. And she really was one of the first names we all unanimously thought like this, you buy Hilary Swank could get to space and we sent the script to her. And the great surprise was she had dreamt as a child to be an astronaut. It was like she's going to be an actor. She was going to be an astronaut. So, now she gets to be both, which is pretty awesome.
Madeline [00:10:48] And in terms of picking not only all the actors and actresses, but also sort of assessing how they're going to work together because there was so much chemistry in the series, both between, on a personal level with their relationships. And then also as a team traveling to space. How do you assess that chemistry and dynamic during the casting process?
Jessica [00:11:14] Well, you know, some of it is just absolute luck. I'll be honest. We never, none of those actors were ever in a room together before we went up to Vancouver to start training, astronaut training camp. And then there's an incredible chemistry between Hillary and her husband, played by Josh Charles and their daughter. And no one had ever worked together before in this show. So, part of it is, is love. Part of it is like just a feeling that you get in a room when you see an actor. And then obviously we had some wonderful directors that came in and then you have to write it really well so that they have this thing to play. But, yeah, that was magical because you just don't know. You don't know until you get there if you don't have the luxury to do, like, chemistry readings.
Madeline [00:12:08] So tell us, you mentioned astronaut boot camp. And I think the cinematography and just the aspects of actually having astronauts in the space suits in zero gravity shots. Tell us about that process of preparing the actors and actresses for actually being able to play those roles.
Jessica [00:12:29] Yes. So, the actors all the people go to space came up like a week early. It's intense wire work. You know, before that they started doing Pilates very seriously. I wish I had done it with them. And then, you know, the wire work is all about your core. And we actually had an astronaut, Mike Massimino, who's been to space many times, came up and talked to all the actors and us about how you move in space, just answered a plethora of questions for us about what the physical part of space travel is like. And then the actors really worked with all the stunt people to start figuring out how they would move in space.
Madeline [00:13:17] So, did you talk then with NASA about just in terms of like the realistic, you know, aspects of the ship and also outer space? I mean, the scenes were so beautiful to watch.
Jessica [00:13:32] Thank you. I mean, with this is, this has been such a you know, I came into this. I never, I didn't know anything really about space and what I love about this show, and I think it would be, you know, your audience, should know too, like you, you don't need to be a space nerd to love this show, like the shows deeply about humanity. But the stuff that I have learned has really opened up an entire new world to me, like I find myself, you know, over dinner talking about things I never would have talked about before. But we had incredible support from NASA. We, you know, talked to planetary geologists and engineers and, you know, they really collaborated with every part of the show. And Mike Massimino said it, the astronaut who was a consultant for us, you know, he had read the right stuff as a young man and it made him, or a young kid and it made him want to be an astronaut. And he felt like, oh, this show could do that for another generation of young people. So, that support from NASA has been I mean, we really couldn't have made something feel so realistic without them. Of course, there's like a million liberties you have to take when you're doing a TV show. Like, you know, I notice, you know, people are like, wow, their connection is so good. The phone connection, well, you know, truly, there is a delay. In the farther away you get, the longer the delay. But can you imagine having to really play that like your audience would be, you know, out the door.
Madeline [00:15:09] And were those actual NASA suits that they put on? I mean, I'm a little bit claustrophobic, so I've got to say, watching that, it was just amazing to see what, you know, how much gear they're in.
Jessica [00:15:19] We had a brilliant costume designer who designed those suits. And they are, you know, inspired by what the real Mars suit that the mission suit would be. But they are her own design. And I think I can talk about this because I saw Hilary recently posted it on Instagram, but she discovered she was quite claustrophobic.
Madeline [00:15:43] I can imagine, they are probably quite heavy and constrictive. Right?
Jessica [00:15:47] Yeah. And then you're in this bubble, your head. And I mean, honestly, if you're really doing the spacewalk, you're wearing a diaper. You have like all these cooling coils all over your body. You're out there for hours. You're sweating in that suit. You know, it's I mean, the people, the stamina ... Again, that's why I went back to like, when we were picking this actress. The resilience, the stamina it takes to be an astronaut is really, it blows your mind.
Madeline [00:16:21] And when they actually got to Mars in the series, where did you film that? Was that in Vancouver, too? Or?
Jessica [00:16:31] We went to Albuquerque, New Mexico.
Madeline [00:16:36] Yeah, because it's exactly what I imagined Mars to look like.
Jessica [00:16:39] Yeah, it's a, if we have a season two, I think that could be a really good Mars. It really worked. And actually, we had our DP and our special effects. One of the special effect’s guys went to Jordan and shot a lot of plates for us. So, they did you know, they did three days of photography in the deserts of Jordan. So that's why it looks also very good.
Madeline [00:17:06] And what in terms of actually filming the scenes where they're shaking and going through the atmosphere? Tell us about the process of filming that, because it was just incredible to watch.
Jessica [00:17:19] Gosh it's like the tricks behind film making is so amazing. It's really just people like, you know, you're on a stage in a tiny capsule and people are moving it to give you the feeling of it. But it's, a lot of it is just the actors moving their bodies. You know, I get so geeked out about like in episode two when they do the spacewalk because, you know, they're really just like on a tiny you know, we built like a solar panel. But, it's in a big, it's in a big warehouse.
Madeline [00:17:59] A spacewalk in a warehouse. That's amazing.
Jessica [00:18:01] Yeah. And then in the other time they go to space. When she goes out in nine with Ram, you know, it's just like a tiny piece of the ship that we built. And then they're just on wires. And then there's like a stunt guy right there and a camera guy right there. And they're just like looking at each other. And it's just the magic of what you can do is so thrilling. It's movie magic.
Madeline [00:18:29] Let's shift a little bit into talking about character development, because the characters just had so much depth and complexity and their interpersonal relationships. We want to focus, I think, first on Emma, the character that Hilary Swank portrays. Can you tell us about what your vision was in terms of having her as this incredibly powerful, relatable female lead?
Jessica [00:18:55] Yeah, I mean, that was like one of the, that was the second reason I decided to do the show or wanted to do the show was I read this and I thought I like in my head I've been like, I want to tell the real story of what it is to be a working mother. And this was the first time I was like, oh, this is the real opportunity to do it. And I know it's like being a working mother to the enth degree, but it felt so relatable that I do believe any woman who works will relate to the emotional push and pull, the guilt, the power, the pride that this character feels in being a working parent. So, that was deeply, deeply important to me to tell that story and tell it well. I have my own 13 year old daughter. And, you know, so I say to her, some of those lines were for you.
Madeline [00:19:55] Yes. It was really enjoyable to watch Emma's relationship with Lexi because Lexi just seemed so much cut of her mother's mold.
Jessica [00:20:03] Yeah.
Madeline [00:20:04] In terms of some of the daredevil things in the you know, just the take charge leadership characteristics. Can you speak a little bit about how you developed her character, Emma's character, with respect to both showing her incredible leadership commander style, but then also being incredibly emotional and real and human, both with her family and the crew?
Jessica [00:20:33] Yeah. I mean, that's something we got more than we could have hoped for, in part just from casting Hilary. Like, I, I tried now to I can't really imagine anybody else bringing as much in that she is so deeply human. She, I love, you know, like for so long working women have been portrayed in this certain, like, high heel clicking down with their briefcase, kind of cool, cold, you know, sleeping with lots of people way. And this is the most powerful woman I've ever met. And she listens to her kid and she is invested in her marriage and she can cry sometimes. And yet when you know, when push comes to shove and she has to be the commander, she is the commander. So, you know, we tried to write that as best as we could, but I just feel like Hillary brought that. That's who she is. You know, that's, that's what she brought to.
Madeline [00:21:30] Yeah, absolutely. Both making life and death decisions you know, in space and then you know, communicating with her husband and supporting him and her daughter. And her daughter's grades, she's caring about that one second. And the next second, she's dealing with the conflict in the crisis on the ship. And that's something else I wanted to ask you a little bit about. There was such a development with respect to the characters building trust among each other. Can you speak to that a little bit and what your vision was for that and the storyline?
Jessica [00:22:02] Yeah, well, that is like our, you know, Andrew had this idea from the very beginning, and it became the sort of swan song of the show, which is this divisiveness we're feeling, this nationalism we're going through, this dividedness. Most astronauts will tell you when they get up there, they have this profound thing that happens to them where they look down at the earth and they don't see lines. They don't see countries. They just see one planet. And we brought that theme deeply into the show. And, while all those astronauts start out as people of their own nations, they really become one family, one nation, in a way during that voyage. And that felt like a really profound message to put into the world in this, in this particular moment.
Madeline [00:22:59] Yeah, I absolutely agree, because as you referred to earlier, there's somebody from all of these different countries, but all under one ship on one mission. And, in terms of some of the other characters, can you speak a little bit about you know, I know we in each episode, you sort of follow to some degree a back story and what they were bringing onto the ship about their family or their relationships or personal conflict that they were having or emotions that they were feeling. Can you tell us a little bit about that character development?
Jessica [00:23:33] Yeah, some of it we knew, you know, from very early on. We knew Lu's story. We knew that she had fallen in love with this woman before she left. We knew that there was a sense of her individuating as the journey to Mars progressed and some things we didn't know, like when we cast Ato who plays Kwesi. He was written as Nigerian and then Ato's family was from Ghana. So, we changed that. And, you know, we sort of started to dig deeper into who we wanted these characters to be as we went on. So, you know, Ray, who plays Ram, when we got to episode four, you know, that was a story we just like, you know, it's the absolute magic of the writer’s room. We sat around and you know, it felt like this character had this thing, this albatross he was carrying. And so, you know, through the course of the, of breaking the episode, we discovered what that story was for him and then a way to play it out in the present. So, he's getting sick on the ship and remembering that he was sick as a child and got his brother sick. So, so many of these character arcs come out of like really hours of conversation in a writer's room and having writers that represent, you know, where these people are from. So, you know, we had an Indian writer on the show and, you know, who helped to, you know, sort of bring their own experience to these stories.
Madeline [00:25:18] And can you speak to the creative license that you might give an actress or an actor in a particular scene to sort of play it out? Where sort of is that delineation between, OK, this is what we've got written and then this is what they're feeling in the moment?
Jessica [00:25:33] You know, it's so funny because different shows now, I've worked on a few shows where they're like, you know, when I worked on Parenthood, actors loved to improv because especially by like season four or whatever, they were just like in their, you know, parts. This show, strangely, was pretty to the letter of the writing. And an actor, either Andrew and I were always on set. So, an actor would say, like, you know, I've been working on it and I don't, you know, I don't feel comfortable saying it this way. Or like, for instance, Vivian, who's from China, would say, like, I don't think a Chinese person would say it that way. You know, say even English, you know, say English this way. So, there was room there. But for some reason, this was just one of those shows where the scripts, you know, stayed, there wasn't a lot of improv, I'd say.
Madeline [00:26:33] Can you speak a little bit to the character of Matt and his relationship with Emma? That was just one of the things that was incredibly powerful, I think, in the series and their bond and their shared, you know, path and then him having to step back from the path of being an astronaut and ending up, you know, on Earth and supporting her. What was your vision for that, that relationship?
Jessica [00:26:56] Well, we just started by talking about, you know, you always see relationships in which husbands and wives are jealous of each other's successes. And what if, what if we didn't? What if these were two people who propped each other up and helped each other and shared a dream? And, you know, the heartbreak of Matt being grounded as an astronaut is immense. But, you know, he's you know, that husband who to me, it makes him a superhero that he can pass the baton to his wife, but also support her in the mission. And it felt like a very unique relationship. And, you know, like, look, if we have a season two, I feel like the longer you're away from someone, the more that is tested. You know, so that’s very interesting to think about what happens after you've been away for two years.
Madeline [00:27:47] Yes. And did you speak to two astronauts about that? I mean, I was thinking about that. You know, the journey, just I'm sure the further you get away and the longer you're away. Even if you're having communication, you're losing touch physically, not being present with people.
Jessica [00:28:04] Yeah, we did speak to ... well, the original, one of the ... the show came from an article. It's very inspired by an article that was in Esquire called Away. And in it, Scott Kelly talks about his sister in law, Gabby Giffords was shot while he was in the space station. And there's this beautiful, you can watch it on YouTube, but he says, you know, today is the worst of humanity. What's happening up here is the best of humanity. It's quite moving. But, many of the astronauts, you know, there is that tether that you want your astronauts to have, that keeps you tied to Earth, that keeps you fighting to get home. The longer, the farther, it does get strained. We actually, Hilary and I talked to this woman, Karen Nyberg, who's been to space. She went when her son was, I think, three. And she said she didn't know that she would go now. Now, that he's older. And she only went for a few months or something.
Madeline [00:29:06] It was, um. I love that scene in which Hilary is training as a fighter pilot before she actually went into space and she realized that she was pregnant and took the helmet off and those sort of decision moments that you can watch her go through as a character. Can you speak to, if there was a message from Emma for the working mothers out there, what would that takeaway be?
Jessica [00:29:37] That's a great. That is such a great question. You know, I mean, I can only speak from my own experience because I was running up to Vancouver to shoot this show for a year and I have a daughter and I'm not with her dad, so, I'm you know, I'm basically a single parent. And you know, I felt a lot of the things and even though I came home every weekend. But, you know, there's just things you miss, you miss like, you know, something bad happens at school. And those are, and that's very painful. But when Covid happened, we were editing and my daughter got into bed with me and I was editing and, on my computer, and she said, what's this? And then we started watching it together. And she was like, this is amazing, you did this? Like, she could not. And then she was, it was the, it was episode four where Ram gets sick. She was like, oh my God, what's going to happen? And then by the end, she was like, crying. And she was so proud of me. And she's like, are people going to see this? You know, she just was thrilled. And I realized that that's I mean, that's what it is. That's you know, hopefully she will go into the world the same way and know that work, whatever she loves to do, will make her a better parent and be good for her child.
Madeline [00:31:17] Yes, and by watching you as an example.
Jessica [00:31:20] Yeah. It was very satisfying and very meta. Although I would not be able to leave for three years. That takes a whole other kind of um ... but people in the military, they go for a year, it's like I mean, you know, I just I feel a whole new admiration for these people who have calling or have to do a job in which they're taken away.
Madeline [00:31:50] Yes, and for a mission that is perhaps, you know, bigger than themselves, whether that's space exploration or something overseas like you said ...
Jessica [00:31:57] Saving the country, yeah.
Madeline [00:32:02] I want to circle back to talking about some of the broader messages which we discussed a little bit earlier. I think the series couldn't have been released at home in a more timely, you know at a more opportune time, given the fact that we're all living in isolation and with the suffering of isolation and being apart from each other and reliance on technology to communicate. Can you speak a little bit to that and what the sort of takeaway is from all of us who are watching the series apart?
Jessica [00:32:33] Yeah, I mean, wow, that was so bizarre. You know, we finished shooting and then literally, I think it was like two weeks later, it was like, everybody stay home. And I was like, wow, now everybody's communicating the way our astronauts are communicating with their families. So, it resonated very deeply. And I think I mean, I just keep thinking, like, wow, we're so lucky to have all this, all these machines that keep us connected to each other in this moment. But it really did hit me that we had written a show in which this is how you have to keep in touch. You can't touch anybody. You can't snuggle. You can't feel anybody. You can't kiss your daughter good night. So, how do you, how can you keep in touch and like, you know, just the moments where pieces of music travel through where you, there's some magic realism in the show where you close your eyes and someone's, you know, you just imagine they're with you. And those are like sort of techniques we've all had to use over the last eight months. I think it is now, to feel not alone.
Madeline [00:33:49] Oh, absolutely. And in terms of the message, like you were saying, of sort of stepping back, what astronauts feel when looking back on Earth and feeling a sense of unity and awe something that's much bigger than yourself. It was incredibly optimistic. I think having that common mission. What was your vision for that?
Jessica [00:34:15] Yeah. I mean, the vision of the show has always been, imagine what we could do if we all work together, I mean, in a very, like, corny way. Everyone we talked to said, oh, Mars is impossible. And then we would say, but what if China and the US and the European Space Agency got... "Oh, yeah, we could go. We could go in two weeks." So, you know, like we didn't sign into the, you know, the vaccine. Like, what if, what if instead of we were all these people trying to make a vaccine, what you know, what if there was more coming together, what is possible? So, I think that was always, you know, in the fabric of this show.
Madeline [00:35:01] Can you speak to, I guess this is a spoiler alert for our audience who hasn't actually gotten to the last episode, but there was that final shot with the five astronauts having landed that group shot. And it wasn't supposed to be a group shot. Can you tell us about that moment and what you were trying to say with that shot of the five astronauts?
Jessica [00:35:26] Yes. Well, so the story goes back to, Lu is in the Chinese space agency. And part of the deal that was made to make this mission happen was that China would be the first to, you know, that she would be the Neil Armstrong of the mission, because everybody knows the first. You know the third, the fourth, nobody knows. But so, she was supposed to be the first. And many things happen on the course of this journey. And they come to be basically a family. And she does not feel that it has integrity to be the first anymore, that we are all the first. And that's really what that moment is. There is literally a first. They let one of them, I mean one of them does step down first. But the message she wanted to send back to the Earth was it took us all. It took all of us to get here.
Madeline [00:36:30] Yeah, it was an incredibly powerful shot, an emotionally moving shot. Can you tell us just what was your favorite thing about filming the series, producing the series? What did you enjoy the most?
Jessica [00:36:45] Well, it was such a treat to be with this group of actors. And, you know, they are an international cast. It felt amazing to work with people from different countries. And so, that was a real highlight for me. You know, obviously, working with Hilary was like, you know, I had seen Boys Don't Cry and Million Dollar Baby, like when I was wanting to be a screenwriter. Those were like movies that I was, you know, those were the bar like to tell stories about women that are that complicated and stories about American life that were that deep. And she just was such an incredible actress. But all of them are brilliant actors. For me, it was a new challenge to work on something with so much special effects and you know, use the new muscles and figure out how to do this new, you know, work with wires, be an architect of like a spacewalk. So, you know, there was such a ... I love when I'm learning something new. And then I got to learn all this stuff about space, like, you know. So that was thrilling.
Madeline [00:38:05] And I know you've talked a little bit. You know, we're all crossing our fingers for season two. And I know you spoke to it a little bit, but what can you tell us that we would expect and what we hope to be season two?
Jessica [00:38:19] Well, you'd be on Mars, which is like, you know, amazing.
Madeline [00:38:24] Mind blowing.
Jessica [00:38:24] Yeah, there's a few things on Mars like The Martian's pretty good. That's a pretty good movie. Hard to live up to. But I'm just so excited about this particular group of astronauts together on Mars. I'm excited about the idea that we go about Mars exploration the same way we went going about getting to space, which is taking everything in, you know, starting in the real, trying to keep it, what it would, you know, like I keep saying, no aliens. Just, what would a real mission to Mars look like? What are the great achievements of being on Mars? What are the terrors? What are the, that landscape is terrifying. The adventures. Of course, the growing relationship between these people who I now just like so deeply invested in, what, where do they all go? What happens to them? How are they challenged more? How do they continue to evolve? And then, of course, how did those relationships with home become? I just, you can't help but imagine that it's going to get harder to keep connected.
Madeline [00:39:37] Oh, absolutely. Yeah.
Madeline [00:39:40] So as we sort of shift into our last segment here, I want to ask you just some questions in terms of your advice for our listeners.
Madeline [00:39:50] So, for you, somebody who's a female producer who has been at the top levels. What is your advice for other people, for other women specifically who want to follow in your footsteps?
Jessica [00:40:06] Well, it's a great time to be a woman right now, writer. I think those stories, those voices are people want them in a way that I don't know that they did when I first started. So, I think this is your moment. Do it. Write. Make sure that when you're writing that you express through your writing why you? What's unique about what you have to say, you know, really locate your voice, learn craft, learn all the things you can learn. But don't forget, you know, this is what's going to separate your voice when people read things is if you're telling a story that's, that you need to tell.
Madeline [00:40:55] And do you have any advice for a broader perspective about what Hollywood and just the filmmaking industry in general can do to promote women to positions at the highest level of leadership and leadership roles?
Jessica [00:41:10] Well, I think they're, they're doing it now. There's definitely like, this is the first show, Away is the first show I worked on where we had parity with the directors. Half were women, half were men. I definitely have noticed a shift in writers’ rooms like when I first started, you never saw as many people of color or women in the room. So, already those shifts are happening. I feel like when more women or more people get to positions of power, they start hiring, you know, more women and, you know, they bring in new people. And then, you know, it’s like this poster I have on my wall, which is The Susan Smith Blackburn Prize. You know, these fellowships and apprenticeships that are offered to women, you know, go for them because they'll help, you know, if you need the help, if you need the guidance, there are places to get it.
Madeline [00:42:17] That's great advice. And, you know we've interviewed on our podcast two other directors, and one of the things we talked about and ask them was just in your role, it's inevitable that you're going to and I guess expect it, have both great reviews and also just deal with criticism. And it can be so I think as women, as humans hard, you know, you can get 100 good reviews and all you can hear is the one bad one. How have you handled dealing with criticism and not let that crush your spirit and your creative vision for things?
Jessica [00:42:56] I mean, if you decide to be an artist, that is the lifelong struggle. So, you know, I feel like I got because I was like twenty-four when I started writing plays, I was so young and I was so out of my you know, I really was like kind of a small town girl, so it was such a harrowing experience that I really learned quite early on that you had to have a thick skin or you had to give up and go home, you know. And I think in the end, resilience in this business, I mean, still to this day, you know, you're dealing with rejection constantly like if you don't get picked up, it's devastating, you know. So, once you get to a certain place like I really don't really read reviews, like I get the gist. Like, you know, from the world, like oh, you know. But, the other great thing about television right now, and there are so many reviews, everybody has a review. So, you know, it's not like when I was a young playwright, it was like what does The New York Times think? And that was it. And you either had your play keep going. Or it was over based on that one review. But TV is a little more proletariat, it's a little more, you know, do people watch it is what it comes down to. But I do think that is rejection, which can be like sending your script out and having it rejected. You know, I just want to say that expect a lot of it. And you know, the people who like, you know, who keep getting back up, it's 'Million Dollar Baby,' Those who get there, you know. Use that fuel.
Madeline [00:44:55] If that's true, and that's the other two directors that we've had on the, you know, various, you know, similar take that it's just it's inevitable, but it takes one yes.
Jessica [00:45:07] It's so true. It takes one yes. So, you just, and with writing, it's just like at least you can keep writing. Like with acting, I don't, that's a whole other thing. I don't know how people keep going with rejection, but with writing at least you just write a new script.
Madeline [00:45:26] So, I want to ask, which is a question we ask all of our guests. What is your best piece of advice for our audience in terms of developing professional self-confidence?
Jessica [00:45:41] I think there is a lot of faking it til you make it, which I'm sure you've heard a lot. But, there is also being a student and asking other people for advice. You know, go to your elders. Go to your, the people you admire. Ask them how they do it. You know, I think being professional in your job is really important or being organized. You know, whatever it takes to make you feel confident through the day, you know, you should sort of architect your life like that. But I think it's OK not to know something. And I think people really respect when you say, you know, like when I first took Away, I said to Jason, who I'd worked with for many years, Katim's, because I started with him on Parenthood and I was like well, I'm just going to be honest, I'm a little nervous about the special effects, like, you know, I've never done anything like this. And, you know, and he was like, I haven't, I haven't either. But you know, then, you know, I started reaching out to other show runners who have done it. And I think always, I think when you get into the head of being too confident, it can, it can be damaging so that, you know, if you investigate, if you do the work, if you learn, if you feel prepared, it'll show, you know, and then how we do it in the rest of our lives and the sort of feeling confident in all the other part is still, it's a work in progress.
Becca [00:47:34] We hope you enjoyed our interview with Jessica. If you haven't watched Away yet, it's streaming now on Netflix. Go check it out! You can connect with Jessica on Twitter @JessRoses07. Thanks for tuning in. If you enjoyed our podcast hit, subscribe and leave us a review. Thank you to Nico Vettese for composing our original music. And thank you always to our home team of friends and family for supporting us in our mission. This episode was produced and edited by Madeline and Becca. Thanks for tuning in. And remember, you are somebody.